1992 119 tdi - advice please?

[mikeau]

Im new to Land Rovers, but Ive always wanted one, and as I now live in a rural location, I feel like I have an excuse to buy one!

I have the chance to buy a 1992 100 tdi, 160,000.

Can anyone tell me anything particular that I should look for when viewing and road-testing?

I've seen photos and it seems to be in clean, well-kept condition (closer inspection will tell!).

Any ideas on a value for an average condition LR of this age and mileage please?

Thanks for all replies and advice. MikeA

 

[educationalist]

I have not heard of the 100 TDI but as it is a 1992 model it is probably a 200TDI providing the engine is not knocking or blowing out clouds of black smoke then purchase it.
Or try and give a little more info on the vehicle its condition and price and members of this forum should reply as to whether it is a good purchase or not, if it is This vehicle will bring a smile to your face.

 

[Deleted member 2171]

providing the engine is not knocking or blowing out clouds of black smoke then purchase it.

No no no. There are plenty of 110s and 90s around that have fine engines but have a chassis that even puts swiss cheese to shame.

mikeau, check the chassis from front to back very thoroughly. Ideally take a screwdriver so you can poke at the chassis and tap the chassis all the way along to make sure it's solid. If the owner won't let you do that, ask why.. because more than likely they're hiding something!

Also the bulkheads love to rot. Check both footwells, door pillars and also the bulkhead mounts.

These are the basics of checking a utility Land Rover.

By the way, the Land Rover Defender 200TDi 110 County Station Wagon tends to fetch between £4,000-£6,000.

 

[mikeau]

I have not heard of the 100 TDI

Finger troubles.. Its a 110tdi


MikeA

 

[mikeau]

Also the bulkheads love to rot. Check both footwells, door pillars and also the bulkhead mounts.

OK.
I know where footwells are, and Im pretty sure I can find the door pillars but wherabouts do I look for the bulkhead mounts? from within the vehicle or from the engine compartment side?

I will also take a screwdriver and a pair of overalls and have a good poke undersides... How "bad" is "BAD" when we're talking about any chassis rust?
Are there any particular points on the chassis where water pools or gets trapped?

Do I need to worry especially about service intervals? (Im thinking of timing belts etc?) and any advice on checking out the engine/transmission?

Thanks.

MikeA

 

[mikeau]

The guy is asking £3.5k but will take a bit less. Seems like a good price depending on condition..?

Thanks.

MikeA

 

[Deleted member 2171]

There are two bulkhead mounts. One on each side on the outriggers just behind the front wheels. You should be able to see them just behind the wheel arch, but the only way to inspect them properly is to climb underneath and have a good look and poke.

A bad chassis is where it doesn't make a nice ring and instead it makes a very dull thud. A bad chassis can also be easy to poke holes in anywhere. A 110's rear chassis is more prone to corrosion than the front half, so expect to find the worst corrosion or rot around the rear half of the vehicle. The rear crossmember is also very prone to rot as it located at the very back of the vehicle.

Servicing intervals can be quite important, especially the timing belt. I do not remember the mileage that can be done before it is due for replacement, but what I do know is that if you do not have any documentation as proof to show that it has been done recently then get it changed as soon as possible.

When on a test drive, listen out for fairly substantial clunks. These could be either a worn mainshaft on the gearbox, worn UJs on the propshafts, worn diffs or halfshaft splines or even worn bushes. Also pay attention to the handling of the vehicle. It isn't likely to handle like a normal car would, but it should go more or less where you steer the wheel with only a little bit of 'play' generated by the wear and tear of the steering and also the rubber twisting on the tyres.

I also suggest listening out for any excessive whine from any part of the transmission. It could either mean worn, or lack of oil that could result in extra wear in the transmission (or even damage in the worst cases).

What spec is it? Is it a van or CSW?

 

[mikeau]

What spec is it? Is it a van or CSW?

Thanks for the info.

The owner sent me pics.
They are attached or online here;
http://shytot.com/landy1.jpg
http://shytot.com/landy2.jpg


(What does CSW stand for?)

MikeA

 

[educationalist]

If the owner is asking £3500 for the landrover in the pictures then it seems a bit expensive. Take a look at http://www.autotrader.co.uk/ and in the left hand box type your postcode and use the scroll down box to choose land rover and defender this will give you a better idea about price and condition on what's around.

 

[mikeau]

If the owner is asking £3500 for the landrover in the pictures then it seems a bit expensive.

Ok. Thanks.
I had a look at autotrader and the price doesnt seem too high if he will come down a bit... The roofrack and towbar setup must add a little to the value?

What would you think is the 'right' price (assuming no rot etc)?

Whats the actual definition of the 'CSW'? can it be applied to any LR that has rear seats and windows, or is it a specific model?

MikeA

 

[mmgemini]

CSW
County Station Wagon.

County is a County pack......

Colour coded wheel spats.
Sunroof
Cloth seats.
Tinted glass.
Heated rear window with wash/wipe.

Side seats could have safety belts fitted.

 

[Deleted member 2171]

educationalist, I don't know where you find out the info but as far as I'm aware it's very hard to come by a solid Defender below £3,500.... Any more info on what you know about the prices and values?

I forgot to mention in an earlier post of another check you need to perform. It's quite a simple test, and it's to check if the gearbox will jump out of gear on overrun.

To check, simply put it in a gear and drive and then off the accelerator and then on it, off and on in an attempt to get it to jump out of gear. Do this in all the gears and in low ratio as well. If all is well, it won't jump out of gear or out of hi/lo ratios.

 

[educationalist]

educationalist, I don't know where you find out the info but as far as I'm aware it's very hard to come by a solid Defender below £3,500.... Any more info on what you know about the prices and values?

The Price of any vehicle is subjective to various market forces, regional variations and rarity of supply in a given geographical area. What may fetch a premium price say in London may not sell as well say in areas of Wales or parts of Cumbria where there is always a surplus of used Land Rover vehicles. Bearing in mind that the Land Rover in Question is approximately fifteen years old, and unless it has been kept undercover and never used off road, or for any towing, then it will be a very tired vehicle, and unless it has had new bushes, axle parts, brake seals etc, ect., it will certainty soon require them. Likewise, also, unless the engine has had new parts then at 160,000 miles it will certainly be entering a period where some will be required.
My comment was that I thought the vehicle was a 'bit expensive' and I still uphold this.
Another price barometer for Land Rovers is eBay and while not strictly an acid test due to the controlled forces of the bargain hunter you will often find similar condition and age vehicles selling for less.
I have always found that prices of land rovers vary from one end of the country to another and until there is a guide price this will remain
(Though a guide price will I think never occur due to the complexities in structuring one for a utilitarian commercial vehicle that may have either covered 10.000 miles in ten years taking a pony to the local gymkhana, while another may have covered a similar mileage in a year helping to blast a limestone quarry)

 

[mikeau]

Fair points on the prices, but this still looks like its worth £3k ish to me (+/- a coupla hundred?).

From the pics it loks like a CSW? (certainly has sunroof and looks like rear wash/wipe?). Will have to wait and see the interior.

The owner has the service history since he owned it (4 years), so I will check whats been done.

Are there any known weak points on this engine which may require replacing at +150k?
Likewise, what would be the approximate cost for "bushes, axle parts, brake seals etc".?

I'm just looking to get a feel for what I might be letting myself in for if I buy it and what it might cost me (worst case scenario - but not new difs!).

Is it possible to fit forward-facing seats in the rear without major work?
I'd prefer my kids to be securely strapped in if possible.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Great group!

MikeA

 

[Deleted member 2171]

The Price of any vehicle is subjective to various market forces, regional variations and rarity of supply in a given geographical area. What may fetch a premium price say in London may not sell as well say in areas of Wales or parts of Cumbria where there is always a surplus of used Land Rover vehicles. Bearing in mind that the Land Rover in Question is approximately fifteen years old, and unless it has been kept undercover and never used off road, or for any towing, then it will be a very tired vehicle, and unless it has had new bushes, axle parts, brake seals etc, ect., it will certainty soon require them. Likewise, also, unless the engine has had new parts then at 160,000 miles it will certainly be entering a period where some will be required.
My comment was that I thought the vehicle was a 'bit expensive' and I still uphold this.
Another price barometer for Land Rovers is eBay and while not strictly an acid test due to the controlled forces of the bargain hunter you will often find similar condition and age vehicles selling for less.
I have always found that prices of land rovers vary from one end of the country to another and until there is a guide price this will remain
(Though a guide price will I think never occur due to the complexities in structuring one for a utilitarian commercial vehicle that may have either covered 10.000 miles in ten years taking a pony to the local gymkhana, while another may have covered a similar mileage in a year helping to blast a limestone quarry)

Quite a complex response. That I did not expect. Very well explained too.

From the pics it loks like a CSW? (certainly has sunroof and looks like rear wash/wipe?). Will have to wait and see the interior.

Yes, it looks like a CSW from the photographs.

The owner has the service history since he owned it (4 years), so I will check whats been done.

That's very good to hear that he has the past for years of service history.

Are there any known weak points on this engine which may require replacing at +150k?

I think the injectors are one of the few things that a TDi may require replacing at that sort of mileage if they haven't been replaced already. But these engines, mechanically, are extremely robust and it will take another 100,000 miles at least before any wear would begin to normally appear.

Likewise, what would be the approximate cost for "bushes, axle parts, brake seals etc".?

Budget for a few hundred pounds. Prices vary depending on source, but I stress that you buy genuine OEM parts when dealing with the brakes!

I'm just looking to get a feel for what I might be letting myself in for if I buy it and what it might cost me (worst case scenario - but not new difs!).

Chassis and bulkhead are expensive to replace and are very big jobs to replace. Gearboxes are a few hundred pounds to replace with a refurbished one, as is the transferbox. A non-refurbed replacement Defender 200TDi is between £500-1,000.

Is it possible to fit forward-facing seats in the rear without major work?
I'd prefer my kids to be securely strapped in if possible.

I believe Exmoor Trim may be of some use. You do understand that a 110 CSW has a second row set of seats behind the front row? As that's why there's a second set of doors behind the front pair. Then you have bench seats at the very back of the vehicle in the load bay.

 

[landydoctor]

A second hand gearbox and transfer box should cost no more than £300 for the pair. recon'd expect to pay £500 - 600 each. dont know where educationalist buys his 200tdi's from but can you tell me!! a good 110 CSW is about 4.5k - 5k for a 94 so a so 3.5k for this one (looks tidy at first glance) seems good. but yes 3.5 might get you a dodgy van type one

do not use e-bay as a guide.....there's too many factors that play with the price. there's an awfull lot of donkeys going for big money.

A 200tdi if it's been cared for will hapily go to 250000 miles injectors will need cleaning every few thousand miles but not replaced..

check the rear axle on the test drive (listen for whines, drones or anything that sounds loud, clunks, the lot) the 110 CSW has a salisbury axle, and from my experience they are not quiet as robust as people say. yes theyre strong, yes they're heavy duty.... but this makes peopel neglect them. if you have to change the bearings youre lookign at the big end of £300... or swap it for a second hand one (gamble) and pay £120..

cheers
dave

 

[mikeau]

You do understand that a 110 CSW has a second row set of seats behind the front row? As that's why there's a second set of doors behind the front pair. Then you have bench seats at the very back of the vehicle in the load bay.

Erm, no!
I hadnt grasped that! (but Im sure I would have noticed when I got there!0 ).

Thanks for all the information chaps. I feel Im now fairly well prepared to go and see the beast (on Sunday) armed with a torch and a hammer or spanner.

I'll report back and let you know what the decision is.

MikeA

 

[lozzd]

To be honest, as long as the chassis is in good condition, and the engine has looked after, that's a good price. As Ken starts to mention, the 200TDi engines are fantastic engines, and last forever and ever. They're also reknowned to be the most reliable and best engine LR ever made; so they're very expensive.

I would probably pay that money, but there are lot of people on here that know a lot more than me

Chances are with 4 years service history, the engine has been looked after; ideally, you'll get a little smoke on startup, and then none at all after a short while... Then you've got a decent 200TDi that doesn't have THAT many miles on it, which itself could probably fetch quite an amount of money

 

[educationalist]

Quite a complex response. That I did not expect. Very well explained too. .

I am sorry, I am a Professor of physics who regularly lectures, and consequently I am used to answering queries from under and post graduate students as a result I try to be as clear and factual as I am able, though some may feel slightly prolix.

 

[mikeau]

OK. I went and had a look, but am undecided at that price. Perhaps you can give me some feedback?

The body work is quite good apart from a ding in the front of the LH wing (no prob), and some small rust spots below both the rear windows. Interior is generally tidy and dog-hair free.

Chassis seems to be rust-free and feels and sounds good along the whole length both sides. The underside looks pretty clean with little or no oil or grease thrown off the difs etc and all the metal looks fairly solid and rust free.

The front outriggers have both seen some rust and have been repaired (repair seems solid enough though). No sign of rust at all under the front carpets, though it is a bit damp under there! I was unable to identify bulkhead mounts, but the entire area looks fairly free of tinworm..

There is rust however on the floor inside both the LHS doors, just inside of the door rubbers, and theres a gap of about 1/4 inch. The rust doesnt look to have spread too far though and is only visible from inside when the doors are open. The RHS has a litle rust in the same places, but not to the point of seeing daylight through. Since its not structural or ugly and can be tidied up, Im not too worried about it.

The worst part was the rear bumper (Im assuming thats what you would call it? the big chunk of metal at the back immediately below the back door?) which was fairly ripe (I was able to poke my finger through in 2 places) and would need replacing. The front bumper has surface rust in a couple of places, but nothing that a wire brush and some paint wouldnt fix.

I wasnt able to drive it too far (it wasnt insured!) but tried 1st, 2nd and 3rd in high and low up his driveway. It did jump out of gear once on overun, but that may have been because I wasnt used to it and hadnt put it into gear properly...

Soo... Im undecided. Its more or less what I wanted, except I was hoping at that price to get something that wouldnt need immediate time and money spending on it...

How much is a rear bumper going to cost me? (and roughly how much time to replace it?), and is the repair work to the front outriggers something to be wary of? (an indication of something else wrong maybe?).

Ive told him that Im going away to think about it. He's in no rush to sell, and wont negotiate below £3k.

Any advice?