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3rd and 4th gone, drove home in 2nd :-(

onepot

In Third Gear
My '79 109 clonked over a speed hump today in the way that only Series Landies can and to my horror I found that I no longer had drive in 3rd or 4th.

The gearlever feels like it is engaging, but there is no drive at all in those gears.

I drove home in 2nd and this became increasingly difficult because on the overrun (i.e. the wheels pushing the box) it started popping out of gear. Added to this the box is whining in a way it never has before (at a standstill if you depress the clutch the whine disappears).

If you push the lever through all the gears then it seems to feel like it always has, with the exception of 2nd which is now much harder to engage.

I'm guessing that this is a bit more serious than a selector spring breaking :(

All suggestions gratefully received.
GC
 
If you lose 3rd and 4th, they are on the same hub, so you could have stripped the splines where it attaches to the main shaft, that would have gone with a bang. Take the drain plug out and see if any bits come out.

The other option is the roll pin that holds the selector on the shaft. If that shears, the selector rod moves, but doesn't push or pull the selector. Does the stick seem free or have a binding spot in 3rd and 4th?

The box will not whine when the clutch is pressed, the innerds are not turning.

Chris
 
I presume you've played with it in transfer box neutral. And once you've had your fun then drop the gearbox oil through a sieve. The weakness of the S3 gearbox is the 3rd/4th gear synchromesh. You may find the synchromesh clips in the gearbox oil... or other metallic things like gearteeth.

Jonathan Paton
 
Don't worry too much about that... some fell out of mine and I'm waiting until the summer for the gearbox swap. Wimp I am. But if it goes before then I need to hide the replacement gearbox from Mr RAC. :)

Jonathan Paton
 
The other option is the roll pin that holds the selector on the shaft. If that shears, the selector rod moves, but doesn't push or pull the selector.

Rubbish, the selector fork is locked in place a 5/16"BSF pinch bolt. But if the pinch bolt has come out(unlikely) the selector rail will move without moving the syncro. A favorite would be a spring (as already mentioned) in the 3rd/4th syncro that has popped out of place stopping it engaging properly.:)
 
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Rubbish, the selector fork is locked in place a 5/16"BSF pinch bolt.


But if the pinch bolt has come out(unlikely) the selector rail will move without moving the syncro


You will forgive me, as it's many years since I had a Series box apart, but as your knowledge is obviously substantially greater than mine, I will conceed you to be correct.

However, if the bolt or a roll pin shears or comes out, the rod slides through the selector fork. It was common on Vauxhalls, for instance. ( I know, I've done quite a few boxes.) If it breaks or works loose on the other end, the gearstick moves the selector casting and not the rod. ( which, I believe, is what I said, you are just agreeing with me) The lock bolt doesn't need to come out, it can slacken and the tip shear when you engage the gear.

Leyland, David Brown, Ford, Case, International, Daf, Scania, Massey Ferguson, and every other make and model of gearbox uses some kind of bolt or pin to hold the selector fork or stick end casting to the rod. It has to, or they cannot be assembled.

So please, if you are going to accuse me of talking rubbish, get your facts right, not just for the few types of gearbox you are familiar with.

The idea of the Forum is to give ideas as to what could be wrong. It might be something completely different to what we are all saying. Just because someone says they are engaging the gear, doesn't mean it is actually engaging. The stick is moving to the gear position, so the stick isn't broken. The rest is possibility.

Chris
 
For the benefit of those without a Manual, or who haven't looked recently due to working on modern vehicles, here are the bolts CCK means. They can fall out and let the rods slide through. If it were a different kind or model of box, the bolts are replaced by Roll pins, to secure the selector forks to the selector rods.

Chris
 

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Or the third motion (output shaft) could have snapped behind 3rd gear.But then I reckon it must be 12-15 years since I had a S1,II or 3 box apart.;)
I used to enjoy doing them,esp if the farmer took all the floor panels and seat box out first.I know its cheating and not strictly necessary but they thought they were saving money and it was a whole lot easier for me !
 
I got rid of my 2A in 1988, JON, so I am working on memory.

Good point about the shaft, that would give problems with 2nd as the shaft would only be firmly secure in the rear bearing and let it move away from the layshaft.

Reading the original post again, he does mention the speed bump, so a catastrophic failure could have been covered by the effects of the bump.

Either way, seems like it's drain the oil and top off the box time.

Chris
 
One Pot
where are you - my ex next door neighbour has a series box to sell - hasn't got round to putting it (and a couple of diffs) on ebay yet. If you are near west yorkshire and interested, I can put you in touch or mediate, if it,s any help
 
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