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Bought a Disco,now need advice on upgrades.

D

DJRichard

In Third Gear
Hi, this is my first post only a week after buying a 1992 TDi Disco.

Ive been reading through posts etc about different questions I have and despite pulling away, or trying to, in Low 3rd gear with virtually no revs, I still find myself getting stuck on totally flat grass. The wheels just end up spinning and I go nowhere. I have not actually got stuck as going back and forth slightly meant that I was able to get out. But its taken me quite a few minutes to travel even 20 metres on flat grass with very good condition tyres! Once I have managed to get out and have looked back to survey the scene, I have created rather deep tracks and what looked like a nice piece of grass has now been destroyed with deep troughs. Not good. Im ultra easy on the throttle too so its not like Im spinning like mad, although at some particular points Ive found a wee bit of throttle does help once the momentum gets going!

Anyway its my first ever 4x4 and I love her so far. I have the usual wish list of mods that youd expect, but the one thing I want urgently is to fit more off road capable tyres. I have the standard 205/80/16's on standard Disco alloys. From what I can gather from searching I can fit up to 235's on her without worrying about wheel arch mods etc. However I think a 2" lift kit would allow me the desired 265/75/16 tyres.

Is this info correct? How easy is it to fit the lift kits? My brother is a mechanic so could help, but if its a very difficult job perhaps I could get a garage to fit it for me, rough cost to be fitted?

Ive been looking around the internet but cant see anywhere like Craddock or Paddock that sells 4x4 accessories, can anyone point me in the right direction of a good place where I could go in and have a look around in Scotland?

Im looking to order the kit and tyres/wheels asap as I really want to get OFF-road without the fear that a flat bit of grass will stop me. I know most of this problem is down to lack of experience but I reckon that proper tyres will make a big difference as Ive had the wheels spinning very slowly by riding the clutch a bit and I still dont move forward!

Awaits flaming and reminds everyone Im a 4x4 virgin!;)

Note time of post, Ive been trawling the site for hours...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wet grass is always a ******. Did you have the centre diff locked? Sounds like your tyres might have too much air in them for mud work.

We live on a farm with LOTS of grassy slopes and mud, and let out tyres down to 18PSI to get a bit softer footprint. Road pressures will cut in and you end up spinning wheels.
 
Ooh - looks like bu.gg.er is a banned work in the UK. Gets said a lot in Aust and has become part of every day speech (uncouth I know). Sorry about that.
 
spudboy said:
Wet grass is always a ******. Did you have the centre diff locked? Sounds like your tyres might have too much air in them for mud work.

We live on a farm with LOTS of grassy slopes and mud, and let out tyres down to 18PSI to get a bit softer footprint. Road pressures will cut in and you end up spinning wheels.
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Yeah I was on difflock in low and trying to pull away in 3rd. I did have the tyres pumped up to road pressures right enough. My compressor was in the house actually so I didnt have the option to reduce tyre pressure. I will put it in the Disco straight away.

Still want new wheels and tyres and the lift kit though!
 
Your problem is down to the tyres, road tyres are, well road tyres. I remember I used to have a Disco about 10 years ago, it had road tyres and was pretty much useless on wet grass, but was OK on most other surfaces.

I now have another Disco and have fitted 245/75 R16 BFG All Terrain tyres, The AT tyres are in between a road tyre and an all out Mud Tyre (MT). So far the tyres have done me well, very surprised just how far they will get you and they are very good on road.

Some people say you can fit 245/75 R16's on a standard vehicle, I doubt that, mine has a 2" lift and I have had to cut a fair bit from the rear wheel arches to allow the tyres to fit without rubbing. Mind you I also have 30mm wheel spacers that push the wheels out wider and near the wheel arch.

Decide what you want to do with the vehicle before buying the tyres, unless you are doing a lot of serious mud-plugging, AT tyres will be fine. Mud Tyres are not quite so good on the road.

You also have to think about new tyres or remoulds, although remoulds are much better than they used to be, they wear out quicker than say a BFG, some people have reported 60-70K miles from a set of BFG's, remoulds always tend to be softer and will not last anywhere near that. So it is not always cost effective to save £20-£30 per tyre if they are not going to last as long.

But, another thing to bear in mind is if you damage a tyre, a remould is cheaper to replace.

What I am planning to do, when funds allow, is to get a second set of mud tyres for weekend playing only.

Contemplating a suspension lift 'could' lead to a whole lot of other things, wide angle props, caster correction arms, extended brake hoses and the list goes on......

It sometimes helps on slippery grass to wiggle the steering from side to side to try and get the tyre sides to grip a bit. Or even reverse up a hill sometimes works better, if safe to do so.
 
If you've got the standard steel rims then I wouldn't go much wider than 235's. I would have thought you will need to change the rims to go much wider without tire role of issues.

A good AT will do the job fine and change the towbar/ground anchor (if fitted) to a detachable one. Trim the bottom corner of the front bumper down and remove the platic centre bit. Fit diff and steering guards, chuck a pump in the back and your away.

That was the set up on my old 200 and it took some beating. A lower centre of Gravity and not really dear tire prices.

I eventually fitted a snorkel, but to honest I am not sure i needed to. It was a nice comfort feeling when crossing deeper water though.

For want of a better phrase...its a slippery slope!!

Oh, and too make you feel better, wet grass is one of the hardest things to get traction on.

Strange but true.
 
littledude said:
Oh, and too make you feel better, wet grass is one of the hardest things to get traction on.
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That does make me feel better :) Although in all honesty my vision of a Land Rover is not a vehicle that would be stuck in what could be described as a football field flat grass! I cant picture it just stuck there due to traction issues, Id always assume it broke down or ran out of fuel.

I really want to take this thing off-road properly, I do a lot of mountain biking and kayaking and also want to be camping out most weekends in very remote places in Scotland, this car just seems ideal for all of that plus getting to travel in relative comfort.

Im not worried about a poorer ride with mud tyres, as long as its still safe to drive without it understeering all over the place. Well thats what I'd imagine it would do with chunky tyres anyway.

Ive seen some lift kits using Bearmach blue springs and ES9000 shocks for around £225. Any opinions on this kit and how easy it is to fit? Things seem very cheap for Land Rovers compared to my last Seat Ibiza which cost me £900 for KW coilovers!

Im a lit worried now about all this cutting that needs, or seems to be needed, in that arches to get 265/75/16's on a 2" lift. What exactly are we talking about here? Is this hours and hours of work?

Why is it that the Discovery 2 appears to be able to larger wheels/tyres with standard suspension than the Discovery 1 that I have? Are the arches different somehow?
 
Why is it that the Discovery 2 appears to be able to larger wheels/tyres with standard suspension than the Discovery 1 that I have? Are the arches different somehow?[/quote said:
I'm not Sure Disco 2's can run any larger tyres than a Disco 1. I have seen on Disco 2's 235/70 16 the same size as fitted to my previous Disco 1. my current Disco 2 has 255/65 16 which just means that the tyre is a bit wider and lastly disco 2's had 18' wheels and tyres fitted but i believe that the Rolling radius is similar to both the 16' wheels.

Therefore all the wheel/tyre combination's are similar height.
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grieuclarke said:
I'm not Sure Disco 2's can run any larger tyres than a Disco 1. I have seen on Disco 2's 235/70 16 the same size as fitted to my previous Disco 1. my current Disco 2 has 255/65 16 which just means that the tyre is a bit wider and lastly disco 2's had 18' wheels and tyres fitted but i believe that the Rolling radius is similar to both the 16' wheels.

Therefore all the wheel/tyre combination's are similar height.
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Thanks.

Do you have your Disco 2 lifted at all or is your vehicle at the standard height as mine is? Im worried about buying larger tyres and wheels and then discovering that they rub in the arches without a lift kit.

Also as youre from Scotland like myself, do you know of any shops that sell Land Rover parts and accessories so that I can see them in the flesh before thinking about parting with my cash?

Its amazing how many questions I have and Ive only had her a week!
 
My Disco2 is totaly standard as it left the Factory as are the wheel tyre combination.

As for Land Rover Parts in Scotland the ones i know are George Mclay near Stirling or Rupert Leng in the Borders
 
I have a disco 2 fitted with 18" rims, with these size wheels the aspect ratio of the tyre (sidewall hight) drops to bring it in line with the 16" rims so that they are overall no bigger. The only trouble with 18" rims is tyre choice and the fact they are 255 wide. Great for school run X5's that don't get dirty. Not so good for certain off road applications.

Tire size and choice make a great difference to the car's ability. Obvious statement I know, but let me go further.

You could go and bolt on a big fat mud tire and thing you got it all covered. It's a easy mistake to make straight of.

The trouble is that the weight of the car is spread over 4 wheels and spread on each tire by a big fat patch of rubber. The ground pressure of the weight is spread further apart across the tread and the tire has a tendancy to sit on the mud rather than cut through it to the grippier, more soild stuff under it.

A narrow tyre has a higher ground pressure (same weight, smaller patch) cuts through the mud and grips. Hey preso, your out (if only it was that easy!!, you cut also cut yourself down to bottom out the axles!!).

On sand the story is the other way round, narrow you can sink and fatter you float...what you want on a soft sandy surface.

On rock's you would use wider tires with lower pressures again.

It's really down to a matter of how serious you are about it, where your going in it and how deep your pockets are!!

265's are a huge tire on a disco, and will reqire arch modifications on the earlier model plus a substatial lift (I would think 2" min) if you are regain articulation something like the original. As said earlier, it dont stop there, you might have to start to look at the whole suspension geometry, brake pipe lengths, bumps stops, yoke angles and list goes on.

Don't get me wrong, they look great and done properly are very capable machines. But they are not a cheap option.

If you need to look at the capabilties of a relatively standard disco with decent thin mud tires, take a look at the camel trophy videos covering the 200 series, especially the Siberia one (could be 89.90 or 91). They chopped the arches out to fit taller, not wider tires (I think they were only 205's), The suspension was slightly upgraded to cope with the extra weight they carried. But boy did they get tested.

Sup to you, if we all did the same, we'd all be bored. I just think you'd get what you want (capability wise) without breaking the bank or too much skin off your knuckles!!

Oh and I think Nene overland have a branch up your way.
 
littledude said:
If you need to look at the capabilties of a relatively standard disco with decent thin mud tires, take a look at the camel trophy videos covering the 200 series, especially the Siberia one (could be 89.90 or 91). They chopped the arches out to fit taller, not wider tires (I think they were only 205's), The suspension was slightly upgraded to cope with the extra weight they carried. But boy did they get tested.
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The Camel Trophy Discoveries used 7.00R16 tyres, varying from specific type each year depending on the terrain that would be covered. Just an ever so slight trim was needed for the 7.00 tyres as they're just marginally taller than standard 205/80 R16 tyres.

They were also given a two inch lift, and as you said littledude it was simply to compensate for the additional weight of the equipment. With them fully laden, they sat at the normal ride height for a standard Disco!
 
I totally agree with little dude,dont run before you can walk.
Get some experience at off roading before you spend money on things that you dont really need.
Just get some decent tyres,the ones on mine are 80% off road 20% on,and they drive better than I thought.
Dont try buying into the scene,make it a gradual process.A standard disco with MT tyres is a very capable thing in the right hands.
And yes,soft wet grass has caused many a red face.:o
 
Arriving today was 4 nice shiney 235/70/16 Insa Turbo Dakar MTs. Im going to get them fitted tomorrow and then take her to the exact same place I was struggling with a few days ago and see how I get on. They do look about a million times more aggressive than the tires I have right now, in fact it almost makes my existing tires look like slicks!

Only cost £182 from Craddock and I ordered them yesterday after the 3pm cut off for online orders and I still got them next day for only £5 extra.

Im so excited about tomorrow that Im not going to go out drinking tonight so that Im all fresh for the morning!:D Think I'll have a wee read over the advice on what to do when you get stuck.........;)
 
OMG!!!! I cant believe the difference. I didnt even need to use any skills to drive over the grass I was on earlier. I simply went into low difflock and took off in 3rd with no revs and she pulled like a train and never even slipped in the slightest! It has completely and utterly restored my faith in the legendary Land Rover:D All hail Mud tyres!!!

I have to say that I cant turn on full lock without the tyres rubbing on the inside. On that flat bar thats in there, I have no idea what that bar is because Im in no way mechanically minded! I guess you guys will have already figures that out though!
 
"That flat bar" is probably either the chassis or suspension radius arm that holds the axle in place. ;)
 
Nice work. You don't hang around making decisions!

You can adjust the stops on the front axle to limit the angle of steering turn. Won't improve the turning circle any, but will stop you rubbing tyres.
 
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