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Can a Snorkal restrict BHP? +one other question

rooster

rooster

Offroader
Two question.

My TD5 engine seems to really run out of power at 70/75MPH, It's still pulling but not quite as I thought it would. It is possible for a snorkel to restrict the amount of air getting to the engine and so I loss some BHP? (it's a mushroom landrover snorkal)

Also I'm not so keen to chip my engine, but would like some more power. If I put a bigger/better intercooler on and put a more free flowing exhaust, can this increase the HP a little, or am I wasting my time? I'm putting overdrive on next month and am thinking this the above might make it a little more drivable with the overdrive and without the chipping the engine.

cheers
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most people favour Safari snorkels as they are forward facing and so you get a slight ramair effect. Some say mushrooms are more restrictive.

So why not just take the snorkel top off and try, or disconnect the snorkel where it goes in the wing and undo the jubilee to remove it and go for a drive to try the intake as LR designed it.

Also check your airfilter isn't filthy.
 
Suppose you could pop down to B&Q and buy an elbow joint for a drain pipe to get the ram air effect ? Cheap test :)
 
Air filter is clean. (new three months ago)

I've been thinking about diconnecting it. I'll try that this weekend.

Cheers
 
Diesel engines have a narrow power band and whilst it feels nippy at lower speeds they do run out of breath at higher speeds. Also the aerodynamics of a wardrobe do not help at higher speeds.

An uprated intercooler and free flowing exhaust will help but again more at lower speeds and to take full advantage of the extra air you will need to increase the fuelling. I dont know the full working of the TD5 but presumably being ECU controlled, it should have an air mass and air temperature sensor so should adjust the fuelling to a certain extent.

Some owners say that snorkels restrict the airflow. I cant comment as my Disco has always had the snorkel on since I bought it but the design is like an induction kit, forcing cool, clean air into the engine at speed. As long as you have the intake facing forwards of course.

My Disco has an uprated intercooler, snorkel and K&N filter and it is quite spritely for the bulk of the vehicle, it happily pulls well up to and beyond the speed limit but is certainly no sports car. It feels happiest between 40-60mph
 
Snorkle doesn't seem to have slow my TD5 truck down and thats with the B&Q pipe facing backwards:)

The wife's TD5 has always given up pulling at a lower speed but I think that down to the 205 tyres, the TD5 seems to prefer 7.70R16/265x75 for speed...
 
I added a safari snorkel after all my other modifications (seen below) and it still goes like the absolute clappers.

T

Not too sure on the mushroom??

Has been discussed many times before to no true answer.
 
Cheers all, some interesting points, I think I'll try without the snorkel, just have to remove it.

I'm sure there's nothing wrong, as it's got a little more poke than the 300tdi used to have, and there's plenty of low down grunt, just once I've got the overdrive fitted I was beginning to wonder if there was the power to handle the lower gearing?

Cheers
 
rooster said:
Two question.

My TD5 engine seems to really run out of power at 70/75MPH, It's still pulling but not quite as I thought it would. It is possible for a snorkel to restrict the amount of air getting to the engine and so I loss some BHP? (it's a mushroom landrover snorkal)
Click to expand...

Mushroom (and in fact all cyclone type) will restrict air flow, and thus will limit 'possible' performance.... a forward facing Safari Type does give a better intake and thus offers a marginal amount of ram effect.

Also I'm not so keen to chip my engine, but would like some more power. If I put a bigger/better intercooler on and put a more free flowing exhaust, can this increase the HP a little, or am I wasting my time? I'm putting overdrive on next month and am thinking this the above might make it a little more drivable with the overdrive and without the chipping the engine.

cheers
Click to expand...

As for the other mods, every little helps.

Intercooler wise, a bigger more efficienct intercooler will make a difference even to a 'standard' tune... but the increase isn't going to be huge. You'd need to consider £££'s vs Gain. A standard Td5 intercooler isn't 'that' bad.

Exhaust wise... I wouldn't waste your money on an aftermarket system.
The standard Td5 system is actually quite good... but can be improved.

The ideal set up (IMHO) would be an early Td5 downpipe as they were straight though and did not have a CAT, and then a centre box replacement pipe (to do away with the large centre silencer) and just a standard rear box/silencer. This set up will work well, and sounds good too!!!

The next marginal gain can be from running a ITG filter (or similar i.e a K&N)... I can supply one if needed ;)


As mentioned though, to get a real gain you do need to have your 90 properly remapped to increase fueling... stay away from Plug In's!!! :eek: (not the best from a tuning or engine point of view).

Why are you against having your Td5 remapped??
Done properly a remap will be well within the capabilites of the engine, and will not have a detrimental effect on a well serviced and looked after engine.
As with any engine, manufactuters have to detune them to ensure they will be reliable even when used with poor quality fuel, and undergo poor servicing etc etc. In the UK we have decent fuel, so as long as you keep your servivcing up to date, and look after the engine (allowing it to warm up/cool down) you shouldn't have any problems.

Ian
 
Porny said:
Mushroom (and in fact all cyclone type) will restrict air flow, and thus will limit 'possible' performance.... a forward facing Safari Type does give a better intake and thus offers a marginal amount of ram effect.



As for the other mods, every little helps.

Intercooler wise, a bigger more efficienct intercooler will make a difference even to a 'standard' tune... but the increase isn't going to be huge. You'd need to consider £££'s vs Gain. A standard Td5 intercooler isn't 'that' bad.

Exhaust wise... I wouldn't waste your money on an aftermarket system.
The standard Td5 system is actually quite good... but can be improved.

The ideal set up (IMHO) would be an early Td5 downpipe as they were straight though and did not have a CAT, and then a centre box replacement pipe (to do away with the large centre silencer) and just a standard rear box/silencer. This set up will work well, and sounds good too!!!

The next marginal gain can be from running a ITG filter (or similar i.e a K&N)... I can supply one if needed ;)


As mentioned though, to get a real gain you do need to have your 90 properly remapped to increase fueling... stay away from Plug In's!!! :eek: (not the best from a tuning or engine point of view).

Why are you against having your Td5 remapped??
Done properly a remap will be well within the capabilites of the engine, and will not have a detrimental effect on a well serviced and looked after engine.
As with any engine, manufactuters have to detune them to ensure they will be reliable even when used with poor quality fuel, and undergo poor servicing etc etc. In the UK we have decent fuel, so as long as you keep your servivcing up to date, and look after the engine (allowing it to warm up/cool down) you shouldn't have any problems.

Ian
Click to expand...

Interesting read thanks Ian.

So as I guessed, there's no real point touching the engine as the gains will be minimal, and so the only way to increase power is to remap. I've got no interest in adding boxes and the like; I would get things done properly.

I see what you're saying about the service and decent fuel. I'm not against remapping just think that Land rover might have developed the engine and ECU specifically, with lots of £ behind them. It's something that eventually I might look into, but wouldn't be happy going over 150BHP with a remap.

Cheers
 
rooster said:
Interesting read thanks Ian.

I might look into, but wouldn't be happy going over 150BHP with a remap.

Cheers
Click to expand...

The only thing people need to look into when remapping is the appropriate cooling capacity (uprated intercooler)

Ian put my defender back to standard for a little test on sunday and....well, lets just say I wont be going back :)

T
 
rooster said:
I see what you're saying about the service and decent fuel. I'm not against remapping just think that Land rover might have developed the engine and ECU specifically, with lots of £ behind them. It's something that eventually I might look into, but wouldn't be happy going over 150BHP with a remap.
Click to expand...

True to an extent....
I work in Powertrain Development (for Jaguar and LR) and so understand the budgets involved and the test work that goes into engine mapping and development.

At the same time, I also know that you can get 'more' out of all the engines we currently produce. In all honesty virtually any engine is detuned to ensure that it meets the requirements of the end users, and with something like a Defender, then it needs to work in all conditions, temperatures, fuel grades, serviceability, working life etc etc.
So as mentioned, if the LR isn't worked hard, is looked after, and only drinks 'good' fuel then it is well within the engines capabilities to produce more power.

Once question is do you actually need any more power??

A remap on a diesel is slightly different to petrol, in that you have fewer variables to adjust.

In basic form a diesel remap simply alters the relationship between throttle position and quantity of fuel. So a remapped engine, at a given throttle position, will simply be injecting more fuel than a standard map.... more power = more diesel.
So if you drive the Land Rover in exactly the same way that you do now, and at the same speeds then the engine won't be working any differently (i.e. working under any additional load, or under additional stress) to one with a standard tune - thus mpg will also stay the same... the only difference is the fact you won't be pressing the accelerator pedal down as hard.

But....
You will always have the additional power there if you need it.

If you only want more power to make overtaking safer/improve mid range punch, then the odd occasion where you use the new found performance will not have any real effect on engine longevity.

However, if you want more power because you drive your LR like a Race Car.. then you will slightly reduce engine longevity. To what extent is dependant on to many factors, but with a mild remap... even if you do 'drive it like you stole it' - I doubt your going to notice that much difference to how long your engine lasts, as a mild/normal remap will still be working well within the capabilities of the engine.

However, if you went for a wild... full Race Spec remap, then your engine will wear out quicker if you use the extra performance all the time, but again, in all honesty the extent to which you engine wears is affected by a large number of other factors. But if you went for a 'absolute balls out' race tune, the chances are you would class your engine as a consumable item!


Ian
 
Good read that. Basically that's what I've been thinking the power if used all the time will not do the engine any favours.

The main reason for me wanting the power would be so that with the overdrive I could cruise at 70-75, and make overtaking a little easier. The reason for asking out the extra power was my defender seems to struggle a little around the 70 mark, and so with the overdrive and thus lower gearing I guess would make that almost impossible.

I'm going to remove the snorkel as I swear that seems to be draining some top end power.

I've looked at the awake your TD5 website and like what I read, is that anything to do with you Ian? Anyway, I'll wait for the warranty to expirer then I better do something about it, it's all about making it more usable.

On another point the Disco TD5 has a little more power than the defender (is that correct?), and has the lower gearing. With the (for example) disco ECU and the disco gearing would the defender be more disco like with regards to top speed and 0-60? I guess the defender has worse aerodynamics!

Cheers
 
rooster said:
Good read that. Basically that's what I've been thinking the power if used all the time will not do the engine any favours.

The main reason for me wanting the power would be so that with the overdrive I could cruise at 70-75, and make overtaking a little easier. The reason for asking out the extra power was my defender seems to struggle a little around the 70 mark, and so with the overdrive and thus lower gearing I guess would make that almost impossible.

I'm going to remove the snorkel as I swear that seems to be draining some top end power.

I've looked at the awake your TD5 website and like what I read, is that anything to do with you Ian? Anyway, I'll wait for the warranty to expirer then I better do something about it, it's all about making it more usable.

On another point the Disco TD5 has a little more power than the defender (is that correct?), and has the lower gearing. With the (for example) disco ECU and the disco gearing would the defender be more disco like with regards to top speed and 0-60? I guess the defender has worse aerodynamics!

Cheers
Click to expand...

Nope... that website is nothing to do with me!!!
I must get around to finishing mine!!! :eek:

A remapped Td5 will happily pull over 70mph :D - even with a snorkel, although the two I have been in lately had Safari Snorkels.

A standard 110 with a snorkel (the same type as yours) will pull 90mph on a private road with a slight down hill.... even with a roof rack!

There are ways around the warranty issue... just have two ECU's... keep the original one standard, and modify the second one. ;)


A Disco 2 does have more power... but then also pulls more weight. It also has a slightly different method of controlling turbo boost pressure.

It's not that easy fitting a Disco ECU to Defender though... one main problem is that the temperature gauge works the wrong way round!!

Also... no point. Just get a remapped Defender ECU.


Ian
 
My stage 2 from JE is awesome and makes so much more of the car. I find it a real pleasure, but must of the time drive it totally normally. I did give a Cayenne a bit of a fright (he was obviously distracted) but I chickened out at a little over a ton!

Still get 29mpg around town etc as well which i am happy with.
 
:D
jum649 said:
My stage 2 from JE is awesome and makes so much more of the car. I find it a real pleasure, but must of the time drive it totally normally. I did give a Cayenne a bit of a fright (he was obviously distracted) but I chickened out at a little over a ton!

Still get 29mpg around town etc as well which i am happy with.
Click to expand...

Same tune up here but.....a month back mine was with a Suzuki Vitara...:p I too chickened out at just over a ton but then again he stopped at 90 so.....:D I just wanted to check everything could tonk it along :)

Although probably not the best on BFG All Terrains. Anyone know what top speed these are rated to?:eek:

James
 
By same tune up here, I meant Stage 2 power tune, but from Porny :)
And no...the snorkel doesnt seem to hinder my performance!
T
 
Thats fine. It was quite strange doing a ton. For some reason it sounded quieter than at 60mph!!!???? Seemed stable but obviously in a 90 its not too safe. Get a wag on at high speed in one of those and its game over. Dont fancy a roll over either Ian. For example the td5 roll over pics you sent me ages ago. Like twigs on top of a concrete slab!

T
 
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