Do I need new steering bushes?

[stevo]

I don't know the name of them, but have a look at the following pics..

Front end, passenger side, first pic shows where the arm sits, and its metal against metal under the squashed bush.

second pic shows where I would think it should be.

Am I right??

Or not?

probably not, but I have clunky steering, particularly when wheels are straight, and I can feel it over bumps too, and this is my suspect...

Don't you love it when I'm all technical ?

 

[Satancom]

Sorry thats gone over my head, can you dumb it down a bit?

Would i be right in thinkging this is the panhard rod?

 

[toppa]

That is your "track rod", they are called "ball joints", the rubber is just to protect the internals of the joint I beleave, so aslong a the balls are still tight in the socket i beleave they are ok. The rod should twist a little i the joints, but there should be no movement sideways at all...

Mmmm anyone care to explain more clearly...

Cheers

 

[nobber]

they look ok to me Steve.
clunky steering you say?

 

[Budgie]

That is your "track rod", they are called "ball joints", the rubber is just to protect the internals of the joint I beleave, so aslong a the balls are still tight in the socket i beleave they are ok. The rod should twist a little i the joints, but there should be no movement sideways at all...

Mmmm anyone care to explain more clearly...

Cheers

I think you've done quite well Toppa.
The only thing is, the bar on the front of the axle is the "drag link", the "track rod" joins the swivels together and is on the rear of the axle.
They are balljoints but you'll see them commonly refered too as "trackrod ends".

The rubber part is a cover to keep the dirt out and the grease, to lubricate the joint, in. You should have rotational movement and it should be smooth. If you have any up/down movement then it's gone and needs replacing.
There are two types, one is a lefthand thread and one is righthand thread.
The trackrod has on of each, so you can adjust the tracking. The drag link has a RHT on the swivel end with another balljoint on the drop arm from the steering box.
They are only about £8-£10 each to buy.

 

[toppa]

I think you've done quite well Toppa.
The only thing is, the bar on the front of the axle is the "drag link", the "track rod" joins the swivels together and is on the rear of the axle.
They are balljoints but you'll see them commonly refered too as "trackrod ends".

The rubber part is a cover to keep the dirt out and the grease, to lubricate the joint, in. You should have rotational movement and it should be smooth. If you have any up/down movement then it's gone and need replacing.
There are two type, one is a lefthand thread and one is righthand thread.
The trackrod has on of each, so you can adjust the tracking. The drag link has a RHT on the swivel end with another balljoint on the drop arm from the steering box.
They are only about £8-£10 each to buy.

Much better explanation


Cheers

 

[stevo]

I think you've done quite well Toppa.
The only thing is, the bar on the front of the axle is the "drag link", the "track rod" joins the swivels together and is on the rear of the axle.
They are balljoints but you'll see them commonly refered too as "trackrod ends".

The rubber part is a cover to keep the dirt out and the grease, to lubricate the joint, in. You should have rotational movement and it should be smooth. If you have any up/down movement then it's gone and needs replacing.
There are two types, one is a lefthand thread and one is righthand thread.
The trackrod has on of each, so you can adjust the tracking. The drag link has a RHT on the swivel end with another balljoint on the drop arm from the steering box.
They are only about £8-£10 each to buy.

So, the draglink is on the front (making my pics of the drag link) but has track rod ends on it, even tho the track rod is on the rear of the axle?

Anyhoo, there's no up/down movement, I can rotate it forwards by hand, then when I release it, theres a clunk of metal hitting metal.
Is this normal?
The other end dousn't seem to sit as far back...

If its normal, then thats not the cause of the notchy steering...

In years to come, I will laugh at my descriptions of Landy parts...

 

[mmgemini]

Notchy steering you say. Right I'll come back to that if I remember.

At the bottom of the steering box you have a forged steel arm. That's called the "drop arm"
There is as has been said a bar across the front from the drop arm to the left swivel.
That bar is the "drag link"
The drag link is attached to the drop arm by what is called the "ball joint" this one is special because it actually comes to bits. Yep it's a right pain to do. When this ball joint fails you get a clunk as you turn the steering lock to lock. The clunk can easily be felt at very low speed as you reverse.
At the other end is a "track rod end" also often called a ball joint just to confuse you all.

The two wheels are tied together by the "track rod" which is adjustable to allow you to set your tracking.
At each end of the track rod is a track rod end TRE.

Now the Defender TRE's are not repairable. You need to replace them.
A cut rubber cover is AFAIK an MOT fail.
I've not tried this BUT on the series the TRE rubber covers can be bought by themselves, they used to be a quid each from the likes of Paddocks.

Notchy steering.
Generally on a coil sprung Land Rove caused by the u/j's on the steering column seizing. Remedy. Some WD40 then oil generally puts things back to normal.

 

[stevo]

cheers for that mike.

The steering column ujs have been sprayed and lubricated a few days ago with no difference. My assistant turned the steering while I had my hand on the ujs too, and I couldn't feel the clunk I could feel through the steering wheel.

The swivel pin housings have been filled. So thats not it..

Now I can identify the Drag Link successfully its the joint at the left swivel (track rod end/ball joint as you said) that concerns me, as thats the one that makes a clunk if I release it after manually twisting it forwards.

Is this a symptom of the ball joint at the drop arm end failing?

 

[mmgemini]

cheers for that mike.


Now I can identify the Drag Link successfully its the joint at the left swivel (track rod end/ball joint as you said) that concerns me, as thats the one that makes a clunk if I release it after manually twisting it forwards.

Is this a symptom of the ball joint at the drop arm end failing?

Yep. They're not expensive and easy, well for me, to do.

Split pin out.
Undo nut. 19mm socket/spanner ?.

Also undo the bolt holding the clamp. Plenty Plus Gas on first. Knock the clamp back a bit.
Now a good hammer and belt the steering arm. THE ARM NOT THE TRE ! And the TRE should jump out of its socket in the steering arm.
Screw the TRE out of the drag link. COUNTING the number of turns. Bet you need some heat to release it.

Now as the book of Haynes refitting is the opposite of taking apart.

NOTE.I'm convinced that the drag link has a set length. There's nothing to say that in the book of Haynes for the Defender. There is a length given in the Discovery book which I don't have a copy of.

HTHi

 

[stevo]

Yep. They're not expensive and easy, well for me, to do.

Split pin out.
Undo nut. 19mm socket/spanner ?.

Also undo the bolt holding the clamp. Plenty Plus Gas on first. Knock the clamp back a bit.
Now a good hammer and belt the steering arm. THE ARM NOT THE TRE ! And the TRE should jump out of its socket in the steering arm.
Screw the TRE out of the drag link. COUNTING the number of turns. Bet you need some heat to release it.

Now as the book of Haynes refitting is the opposite of taking apart.

NOTE.I'm convinced that the drag link has a set length. There's nothing to say that in the book of Haynes for the Defender. There is a length given in the Discovery book which I don't have a copy of.

HTHi

Right - I'm probably being stupid here but....

1. your instructions are for replacing the TRE - correct? This is on the passenger side I assume as thats the threaded (and rusty/dirty) end
There is no play at the TRE at the moment. Can I leave the old TRE balljoint there in that case?

2. The drop arm end will presumably need some love then as it will be this that is creating the clunks... (technical again ).
If I remove the drag link, is it feasible to change the drop arm b/j at that end only? In which case I will need one of these I assume.

Am I on the right track....

 

[mmgemini]

Sorry I read that as TRE on drag link.
The ball joint is a different ball game altogether.
Have a look on www.REEDX.net. Colin has I think a very good detailed description of the job.

 

[stevo]

Sorry I read that as TRE on drag link.
The ball joint is a different ball game altogether.
Have a look on www.REEDX.net. Colin has I think a very good detailed description of the job.

cheers Mike - most useful! If thats the cause of the clunk I will be most pleased to repair it for about a tenner

After all, my time is way cheaper than the mechanics!

thanks again!

 

[mmgemini]

cheers Mike - most useful! If thats the cause of the clunk I will be most pleased to repair it for about a tenner

After all, my time is way cheaper than the mechanics!

thanks again!

You can actually see the ball joint move if you look at it with the engine running and get somebody to move the steering SLOWLY side to side. Well really you just need to move the wheel a couple of inches one way then the otherway.

 

[stevo]

You can actually see the ball joint move if you look at it with the engine running and get somebody to move the steering SLOWLY side to side. Well really you just need to move the wheel a couple of inches one way then the otherway.

will do

even if thats not the culprit, then theres no harm in replacing it

I think I will slowly replace all the bushes, and such as its a bit harsh on the bumps...

 

[Budgie]

Now your main problem will be getting the drop arm off the steering box!!

Can be simple, can be a S.O.B, can refuse all together!
Remember to leave the large nut a couple of threads on the end of the steering bax shaft so that the drop arm - doesn't, when it releases from the taper on the shaft. (If you get my meaning )

 

[mmgemini]

Now your main problem will be getting the drop arm off the steering box!!

WHY ???

 

[stevo]

Now your main problem will be getting the drop arm off the steering box!!

Can be simple, can be a S.O.B, can refuse all together!
Remember to leave the large nut a couple of threads on the end of the steering bax shaft so that the drop arm - doesn't, when it releases from the taper on the shaft. (If you get my meaning )

The drop arm is staying firmly attached to the steering box. Removing the drop arm looks like a whole world of hurt, and unneccessary too in this instance

 

[landydoctor]

I knwo where budgie is comming from... I seem to remember from doing my drop arm joint, there was stuff in the way meaning i couldn't get a clamp on the compress the spring in the joint....I overcame this with a canny trick with a jackhandle with a small socket on the end, which i jacked up to make contact with the bottom of the joint to push it together.


The joint failed 3 months later (crap Kit from something-addocks)

 

[mmgemini]

Ken I pointed steveo at www.REEDX.net because that site shews how to do the job from under the car. I don't use that method but not everybody has an old fashioned "G" clamp type valve compressor tool.