High Torque Starter Motors

[robwlondon]

My old Perkins takes a lot to spin it over when its cold and I've melted one starter end cover. Every connection has to be spot on and the brushes and commutator clean. Its so hard on the starters that I have one rebuilt ready to swap, I get about 3 years before the brushes are toast. I use a 950 CCA battery (019) it it needs all of those amps. Starter is earthed to battery as well as chassis. The Perkins has the flame heater in the inlet which is a great bit of kit as it heats the air for only a bit of electricity. I also have a Webasto so if I remember 10 mins before I can warm the engine. My final belt and braces is a 2kw block heater in the heater circuit. This could be your best solution, they are cheap, simple, easy to fit and work. Down side is you have to member to plug it in about 30 mins before and of course you need to have 240v nearby. Good news is its warming up without the engine running so you can leave it locked and the heater will be nice as soon as you drive off.
I have one of these, they are pretty much standard fitment across northern / eastern Europe. When we were in Norway the office car parks had sockets so you could warm your car before going home. It was often -20C.

New Car 2000W Engine Coolant Heater Preheater Air Parking Heating Pump | eBay

Applicable: suitable for car, truck, van engine warm up. 1 piece Tee. Size Chart Temperature range: -40-40°. Model: YRQ-2000W-220V-1. Material: Aluminum. Material: Made of aluminum material, wear resistant and durable.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[SWBFreeLoader]

I have an old MGB sump with an oil pre-heater in (came from a race car).
I do often wonder how much it would aid the starting on cold days. Thing is we don't get really bad days here so it would end up being used 3 times a year or something.

 

[paul123]

My old Perkins takes a lot to spin it over when its cold and I've melted one starter end cover. Every connection has to be spot on and the brushes and commutator clean. Its so hard on the starters that I have one rebuilt ready to swap, I get about 3 years before the brushes are toast. I use a 950 CCA battery (019) it it needs all of those amps. Starter is earthed to battery as well as chassis. The Perkins has the flame heater in the inlet which is a great bit of kit as it heats the air for only a bit of electricity. I also have a Webasto so if I remember 10 mins before I can warm the engine. My final belt and braces is a 2kw block heater in the heater circuit. This could be your best solution, they are cheap, simple, easy to fit and work. Down side is you have to member to plug it in about 30 mins before and of course you need to have 240v nearby. Good news is its warming up without the engine running so you can leave it locked and the heater will be nice as soon as you drive off.
I have one of these, they are pretty much standard fitment across northern / eastern Europe. When we were in Norway the office car parks had sockets so you could warm your car before going home. It was often -20C.

New Car 2000W Engine Coolant Heater Preheater Air Parking Heating Pump | eBay

Applicable: suitable for car, truck, van engine warm up. 1 piece Tee. Size Chart Temperature range: -40-40°. Model: YRQ-2000W-220V-1. Material: Aluminum. Material: Made of aluminum material, wear resistant and durable.

www.ebay.co.uk

those electric water heaters make a big difference on cold mornings. heater working as soon as the engine is started. had one on my range rover a few years.

 

[SeriesG]

How much is a normal powerlite compared to the blue box version, if its cheaper theres got to be a reason, i cannot remember where i got my petrol one from now but im very pleased with its performance, my 2.25 petrol starts first time every time now where as before seemed to turn for ages before it sprung to life, one of my best upgrades so far.

You have a good point there. I can't say if it's a cheaper version but as you suggest, it is in a blue box so I'd guess that to be true.

 

[robwlondon]

those electric water heaters make a big difference on cold mornings. heater working as soon as the engine is started. had one on my range rover a few years.

The marketing blurb says they pay for themselves in less fuel used over the first few miles with a cold engine and less engine wear. Could be true

 

[paul123]

The marketing blurb says they pay for themselves in less fuel used over the first few miles with a cold engine and less engine wear. Could be true

i have not noticed any change in mpg its just nice to have a heater that is giving instant heat.

 

[enrich01]

My old Perkins takes a lot to spin it over when its cold and I've melted one starter end cover. Every connection has to be spot on and the brushes and commutator clean. Its so hard on the starters that I have one rebuilt ready to swap, I get about 3 years before the brushes are toast. I use a 950 CCA battery (019) it it needs all of those amps. Starter is earthed to battery as well as chassis. The Perkins has the flame heater in the inlet which is a great bit of kit as it heats the air for only a bit of electricity. I also have a Webasto so if I remember 10 mins before I can warm the engine. My final belt and braces is a 2kw block heater in the heater circuit. This could be your best solution, they are cheap, simple, easy to fit and work. Down side is you have to member to plug it in about 30 mins before and of course you need to have 240v nearby. Good news is its warming up without the engine running so you can leave it locked and the heater will be nice as soon as you drive off.
I have one of these, they are pretty much standard fitment across northern / eastern Europe. When we were in Norway the office car parks had sockets so you could warm your car before going home. It was often -20C.

I would sooner push it than fit a shi4 part starter motor

I nearly did have to push it!!
Now Britpart are only Wholesalers, so they don't necessarily make the parts.
I've been very happy with the quality of parts I've bought from Britpart.
New 11" Brake drums, UJ's, One Ton shocks, Bushes, everything I've bought has been impressive in terms of quality and price.
Britpart's high torque, gear reduction starter motors are made by Powerlite. They're Not cheap but by the time I add the cost
of 2 starter motors - tested, returned at £70, refitted and then they're still not right, I need a better solution.
I remade and shone up all the connections, I ensured a good earth and feed, applied vaseline to all joints and the result was still disappointing.
Once its warm, the engine cranks perfectly quickly..
The Issue I failed to consider was my Engine oil. I use is 20W50, which on these cold mornings must be Cold and very Thick.
Obviously quite a drag and explains why I've been getting over 70psi on the oil gauge at start up over these past 3 days..
I think that's a good reason for an engine pre heater!

 

[hood135]

The Perkins has the flame heater in the inlet which is a great bit of kit as it heats the air for only a bit of electricity.

My MF FE35 has one of these in the manifold too but I always found that it drained the battery. Kind of concerning to see the smoke rising from it if you're not used to it. Does your perkins have standard glow plugs too?

I think that's a good reason for an engine pre heater!

@SeriesG fitted a block heater to his that fitted into a core plug and plugs into the mains. Not sure if they'd be available over here though.

Wonder if a heater like that would help my MF start easier?

 

[robwlondon]

My Perkins only has the flame heater. Very important to keep the air-filter clean and some way away. Mine now has the oil bath about 2ft of tube away! I fitted core plug heater in an old Jaguar but it was 110v, never found a 240v version. so I had to lug a lead and a step down transformer. It didn't get a lot of use

 

[SeriesG]

My MF FE35 has one of these in the manifold too but I always found that it drained the battery. Kind of concerning to see the smoke rising from it if you're not used to it. Does your perkins have standard glow plugs too?



@SeriesG fitted a block heater to his that fitted into a core plug and plugs into the mains. Not sure if they'd be available over here though.

Wonder if a heater like that would help my MF start easier?

Those little core plug heaters are available on Amazn so I'd suspect they could be shipped anywhere. The trick is knowing what size the hole is although if you search "Phillips temro block heater catalog" you'll get a pdf file with a whole lot of vehicles to choose from.

I'm quite sure that having one in the block on your tractor would help it start it on colder days.

 

[robwlondon]

The core heater I had many years ago was 250w so I think it was designed to be on for long periods to prevent block freezing as well as giving a good cold start. The engine was very old and I didn't feel happy moving the core plug so in the end I cut the bottom hose, fitted a malleable iron swept tee and screwed it into that.

 

[hood135]

My Perkins only has the flame heater. Very important to keep the air-filter clean and some way away. Mine now has the oil bath about 2ft of tube away! I fitted core plug heater in an old Jaguar but it was 110v, never found a 240v version. so I had to lug a lead and a step down transformer. It didn't get a lot of use

Yeah on my MF the oil bath is a little close for comfort but there's no choice. I was thinking power conversion would be a problem.

Those little core plug heaters are available on Amazn so I'd suspect they could be shipped anywhere. The trick is knowing what size the hole is although if you search "Phillips temro block heater catalog" you'll get a pdf file with a whole lot of vehicles to choose from.

I'm quite sure that having one in the block on your tractor would help it start it on colder days.

It's the power conversion that would bother me, unless you can get them to run on 230V rather than 110?
My MF has a Standard 23C engine which I believe is similar to some used in Standard Vanguard vans. It usually hates starting at anything below 10°c. Still I suppose its 1950s technology.

 

[SeriesG]

Yeah on my MF the oil bath is a little close for comfort but there's no choice. I was thinking power conversion would be a problem.

It's the power conversion that would bother me, unless you can get them to run on 230V rather than 110?
My MF has a Standard 23C engine which I believe is similar to some used in Standard Vanguard vans. It usually hates starting at anything below 10°c. Still I suppose its 1950s technology.

Oh yeah I didn't think of that - I completely forgot about the 230V thing. Hmmm... I'll have to look into that one.

 

[phoenixdave]

Yeah on my MF the oil bath is a little close for comfort but there's no choice. I was thinking power conversion would be a problem.

It's the power conversion that would bother me, unless you can get them to run on 230V rather than 110?
My MF has a Standard 23C engine which I believe is similar to some used in Standard Vanguard vans. It usually hates starting at anything below 10°c. Still I suppose its 1950s technology.

That's the 4 cylinder MF isn't it? They were always well known as difficult starters. The slightly later ones with the 3 cylinder Perkins engines are much better starters. David

 

[hood135]

That's the 4 cylinder MF isn't it? They were always well known as difficult starters. The slightly later ones with the 3 cylinder Perkins engines are much better starters. David

It is yeah. This particular one was built 1958 so just after they changed from grey/gold to red/grey.

 

[SeriesG]

It is yeah. This particular one was built 1958 so just after they changed from grey/gold to red/grey.

While poking around the web looking for a block heater I noticed the same thing - the 23C engine is known for being hard to start. Interesting.

So 99% of the core plug style block heaters available are 120v which I found somewhat odd. Nevertheless I did spot one 240v unit that fits into a 1-1/4" hole (which I think is right for the MF 23C... I think) here:

Zerostart 8608911 Engine Heater Direct Immersion Style - Diesel Components, Inc

Zerostart 8608911 Engine Heater

dieselcomponentsinc.com

I don't know if the element would fit between the cylinders and I don't know if the cord would fit behind the manifolds but it's the only one I could find in 240v. You might be better off with a more commonly available 240v in-line circulating coolant heater.

 

[hood135]

While poking around the web looking for a block heater I noticed the same thing - the 23C engine is known for being hard to start. Interesting.

So 99% of the core plug style block heaters available are 120v which I found somewhat odd. Nevertheless I did spot one 240v unit that fits into a 1-1/4" hole (which I think is right for the MF 23C... I think) here:

Zerostart 8608911 Engine Heater Direct Immersion Style - Diesel Components, Inc

Zerostart 8608911 Engine Heater

dieselcomponentsinc.com

I don't know if the element would fit between the cylinders and I don't know if the cord would fit behind the manifolds but it's the only one I could find in 240v. You might be better off with a more commonly available 240v in-line circulating coolant heater.

That's handy thanks for the link! I'll look into anything that will avoid me melting another battery terminal!

 

[robwlondon]

When I had my Jaguar outside in all weathers I had a small greensouse heater - 240 but with no exposed fire sources. Standing that underneath the sump works.

 

[nickjaxe]

Mine is a standard starter, and I find it helps to turn it over, then use glow plugs, then turn it over again.

It started like that in -20 quite happily.

What's the CCA of your battery? Mines 110ah.

That just how I used to start my old 2.25d till I fitted a 200di.....with the hi torque starter.
Even with a knacked old batt it had no prob starting the 200.

I have heard they with fit a series engine.

 

[Big Sandy]

I have heard they with fit a series engine

I've heard that too.