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Newbie help - S111 brakes?

barmy76

In Fourth Gear
After a year and a half of standing my newly aquired S111 received a new starter motor and battery and as everyone told me she started and fired up beautifully.
With the obligatory rust holes in the both foot wells I figured she would not pass an MOT but they would give me a list of things to work on! She does fail but only on a seized front brake binding.

After taking the wheel off I could turn the brake drum round and I could hear the brake shoes rubbing on the drum at particular points as i turn it.
The garage near me stated that when a landie has been left standing the brake drum changes shape and may need re-shaping!
Two new brake drums, shoes and springs and a thorough clean and the problem persists!

What do I look at next.
 
no brake drum is ever going to perfectly square, a certain amount of rubbing is achievable. mine rub a tad in that they touch lightly, folk will be along in a bit to hopefully back this statement up.
 
Brake drums do not change shape because a vehicle has remained stationary (unless of course the drums are deformed by constant pressure ie. hand brake/emergency brake activated )--Land Rover-S111 has a transmission "hand brake", therefore brake drums remain unaffected
 
no brake drum is ever going to perfectly square,
...except Britpart ones, judging by how much pedal thump they give;):D
a certain amount of rubbing is achievable. mine rub a tad in that they touch lightly, folk will be along in a bit to hopefully back this statement up.
Yes, a light brushing of certain points on the drum is inevitable if you're going to adjust the brakes to be effective. As long as the contact is a light brush or scrape and has no discernable retardation on the wheel, then there's no problem.
 
Or a failing hose...

Did you also make sure the adjuster was backed off, and then set the brakes up afterwards? Some light brushing is perfectly acceptable, as long as its not binding and sticking solid.

What year is your SIII, Barmy76? Does it have 10 or 11" brakes on the front? (single wheel cylinder or twin?) Going from your user name, I'm guessing 1976, so you have 10" drums and a single cylinder. That makes life easier, believe me!

Most likely a siezed or sticking wheel cylinder though.....if you buy new, get genuine Lucas ones, dont DONT get the cheapo pattern ones, its your life on the line.
 
You can feel an oval drum by lightly touching the brakes, your foot bounces. The pistons of the cylinders move in and out as the wide and narrow part of the drum passes.

The most common reason is the handbrake being put on when you have hot drums, they contract when they cool and deform. If you ever have a binding brake, chock the wheels and leave the handbrake off.

Astras used to do it often, when they had manually adjusted shoes.

Chris
 
I agree with what most have said on this thread that each brake has a slight scuff, high low point on the drum. Mine does on all 4 and the adjusters are set to the point where this just occurs.

I am not sure wether to start a new thread on the forum or hijack this one but after replacing all 4 brake shoe pairs and cylinders and bleeding 250ml of brake fluid through each wheel, starting with the furthest from the brake cylinder when I stand on the brake I can just touch the floor. Pumping does not make much if any improvement. I think the feel was harder after a few pumps before I started but would hit the floor on the first push.

It is a S111 1977 single system I thought the master cylinder was in good nick, any ideas before I invest in a new lucas one (existing i think is a lucas). Landy is in the garage having rebuild work so have never actually driven it with these brakes. A bit miffed to have done a major bit of work and not got a good result. :(
 
Thank you for the replies, this is very helpful.

In answer to the questions, yes it is a '76, 10" brake cylinder with single cylinder. Adjuster was backed off and set up.

There is not a constant rub of shoes on cylinder it is an obvious No resistance and then Wheel stopper twice a turn of the wheel.

Question..
Is replacing the wheel cylinder straight forward and what new parts do i need.

Thanx once again.
 
I agree with what most have said on this thread that each brake has a slight scuff, high low point on the drum. Mine does on all 4 and the adjusters are set to the point where this just occurs.

I am not sure wether to start a new thread on the forum or hijack this one but after replacing all 4 brake shoe pairs and cylinders and bleeding 250ml of brake fluid through each wheel, starting with the furthest from the brake cylinder when I stand on the brake I can just touch the floor. Pumping does not make much if any improvement. I think the feel was harder after a few pumps before I started but would hit the floor on the first push.

It is a S111 1977 single system I thought the master cylinder was in good nick, any ideas before I invest in a new lucas one (existing i think is a lucas). Landy is in the garage having rebuild work so have never actually driven it with these brakes. A bit miffed to have done a major bit of work and not got a good result. :(

Ive had this problem in the past, turned out to be bad rubbers in the master cylinder. Dont rush out to buy a brand new master cylinder, buy a geniun lucus master cylinder repair kit, and change the rubbers, you will find if the bore is ok that you will end up with an as new master cylinder for a hell of alot less money!
 
Question..
Is replacing the wheel cylinder straight forward and what new parts do i need.

Thanx once again.

Assuming you have to do it (hope you dont!), heres the parts for both sides.

Front wheel cylinder for SIII 10" brakes is part no 243296 Right hand side, 243297 lh side.

Bleed screws, 2 of 556508, nuts 4 of NH65041L (you'd think theyd come with them, wouldnt you? They dont.) Flexi hoses, FAM3162, 2 of. Again, nuts and shakeproof washers for these NT60641L Nuts 4 of, and WF10001L washesr, 4 of.

Probably new brake lines, might be worth getting a brake flaring tool and cunifer (copper) brake pipe and fittings. (have a look at this one...good value)


First though, take the drums off and carefully meaure them. You may find that getting them trued up by somebody with a lathe may be worth while.
 
I've just put in a new wheel cylinder (Lucas, Big Sandy don't fret). I surprised myself how fast it was. :D :D

Soak any threads at least the day before. And soak them again. If you replaced your brake shoes, drums and springs yourself, it is easy to change the wheel cylinder. If someone else did it, it is still not difficult. Just ask again on here and one or all of us will point you in the right direction.

You will need to bleed it all of course......

Adrian
 

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Thanks again for the info.:rolleyes:
I'll let you know how I get on with this problem!

I've just test ran the car and smoke has started pluming out from the engine bay! I replaced the number plate light the previous day and I figure I must have re wired it incorrectly!!

(How difficult can it be I said to myself before doing it)............:eek:
 
I cant believe it passed the MOT today!
The problem is still there though so I will replace the wheel cylinders any way! A thorough clean and new springs and pads must have made some improvement to Mr MOT tester.

Thanks for all the help.
 
no word of a lie here:

i recently sold a swb front axle with those 10in brakes on, when i took it apart i thought that somebody had fitted saloon car brakes into land axles.

theres no way in my mind a single cylinder up front is man enough to pull up a landy.

i have only ever seen 11in front brakes btw.....
 
I have 10" brakes on my swb, new cylinders, shoes and drums and a servo and it still won't lock the wheels, whereas the 11" brakes on the 109 even with knackered shoes and brakes not even adjusted up seem to do it no trouble, without a servo. (just testing the 109 around the yard last weekend and I noticed how much better the brakes were) I have 3 inch wide drums and backplates and was toying with the idea of fitting them to the 88.

Does anyone know if cylinders for the 3 inch wide drums are a bigger diameter than those on standard 11 inch brakes? It seems to be a different part number from the book but the old ones that came off the backplates seemed to be identical to the ones on the 109's standard brakes. So what's the difference between them?
 
Does anyone know if cylinders for the 3 inch wide drums are a bigger diameter than those on standard 11 inch brakes? It seems to be a different part number from the book but the old ones that came off the backplates seemed to be identical to the ones on the 109's standard brakes. So what's the difference between them?
I don't think I have the 3" cylinders I took off my vehicle anymore.

You'll probably find the distance from the milled flat of the cylinder to the centre of the piston is greater on the 3" cylinder. It might even be 1.5". I know they are different, I held a 2.25" cylinder in my hand wondering why it wasn't identical to the one on the vehicle. You know that story.

I'm sorry if this is the same question but can you put 11" brakes on a SWB S111?
Yes. 11" x 2.25" front and 10" rear were factory fit on late SWB S3 vehicles.

Jonathan Paton
 
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