Ninety V8 Auto conversion, A few small tech questions.

[Devon-Rover]

Hi everyone, This is the beginning of what i hope will end up in the projects section as a proper guide as i'm yet to find a definitive answer of what is to be done to Convert a ninety to automatic. A lot of searching the interweb brings a lot of half answered questions, nothing cast iron in a proper this is how you do it.

I'm now at a stage where i have a 1985 V8 ninety and a 1995 V8I discovery as parts doner.
The afforementioned ninety has had an relatively easy life and is in good nick and when i get going i will do the introductions properly in the projects section.

Anyway the ninety which should of had a LT85 box came to me with a LT95 connected to what looks like the V8 belonging to a Range Rover. Now should of it been just the case of finding a new 5 speed box and be done with it. But it is comepletly unknown and a bit of a gamble, So i Have this Disco that isn't in the best of health bodywork wise but has a low millage 3.9 and a nice shifting auto. So I'm going to put the 3.9 and the auto in the ninety.

Now onto the Questions.

Mount's and Prop's: There is all this talk of different prop shafts and moving the engine mounts but i'm struggaling to find someone who has already a V8 and is just changing the box.
So if I chuck the box in where is should sit on the gearbox mounts and lines up the propshafts then will the engine sit on the current original mounts. Or is it a case of lining up the engine mounts and then fabbing up the props to fit?

Exhaust's:
I could stay with the original factory V8 exhaust but as the 3.9 breathes a bit more (and when is it roadworthy i will stick the 4.2 out of my current Disco in it) So a slightly better bore system is needed. My best option is a system like the 50th anniversary models.
Is there anyone here who has a 50th that could possibly take a picture or two of the underside or just describe how the system runs? Is it a special manifold or does it run the twin exit manifold and Downpipes like the Disco than into the y piece - midbox - then a TD5 style rear pipe?
I understand the 50th might have cats IIRC bit like the Disco i'm taking it off, But i will Decat it. If i can gain a good understanding of how the system runs i will go and give Double S a call when funds allow and buy their 50th system.

Engine: As i have the complete disco i can strip off all the bits i need so i will also go EFI amd then LPG too. Again all is on the Disco so that easy. But,....
Has anyone who has Gassed a Ninety got any suggestions as an idea compromise on the tank capacity whilst still retaining load space? Thinking two small tanks in the rear load bay and a 40 odd litre in the space behind the rear axle?

Also I'm looking from those who have Done the EFI to suggest a suitable fuel pump or a knowledge of what pressure and Gallons Per hour i need to look for a correct pump.

Next up is a luxury item. I'm going to fit the Cruise control to the Ninety too as i have the means, Anyone done it before to offer a few tips and advice or am i on my own in scratching my head?

Many thanks for all help the more info i can get now the quicker i can build my dream Ninety.

 

[HPLP]

Im in the middle of building up a v8 truckcab at the moment. Ive fitted a Defender R380 with V8 bellhousing and 1-1 early range rover transfer box to it. In the end I had to make/fab new mounts for the engine as it was a change from the 200tdi that was there before. I put the transfer box in the same origional position and gearbox too and then worked forwards. With the engine on the floor, you might be able to do that or even to roughly measure where the mounts were on the discovery. I then welded my engine mounts onto the chassis with the engine all connected up to the bellhousing.

For the exhaust, why not butcher the old disco one? Im sure that you might be able to get the guts of it from that. Certainly the Y-piece anyway.

I used a combination of that and the back pipe from the TD on mine and surprisingly its not actually that loud!

No experience of gas Im afraid. In all honesty, Im thinking so long as I get mid teens Mpg out of mine, it'll do and any more is a bonus!

H

 

[wermy]

If you have an original V8 then the V8/Auto just bolts in the same place. Then you don't have to worry about props or mounts.
My 110 was a V8/LT85 and fitting an EFi motor and it's auto just went in the same place. As everything is in the same place then the exhaust uses standard components.
As to the auto shifter then you can put that alongside the handbrake on the front of the seatbox. The Hi/Lo needs a bit of modifying to bring it into the correct place in the tunnel gaiter. Mine was cantilevered forward by a few inches using a piece of flat plate.
The ECU can go in the battery box as the wiring is just long enough.
I can't help on the fuel pump as 110's have the standard rear tank and you just swap the pump to an EFi one.

My advice is to keep it as standard as possible, it makes it easier to maintain in the future !

 

[mowog]

As posted, its a straight switch over for the engine. The exhausts will need a bit of mod unless you stick with the 3.5 carb manifolds, as they didnt do a twin downpipe 90 or 110 . You will need a pulse generator for efi ecu either from gearbox or in speedo line . gearbox is straight swap as well . You will need trans cooler and pipes. HTSH

 

[Devon-Rover]

Hi.

Thanks for all the help That will be a great help knowing that i haven't got to muck about too much fitting it in. Most other bits i have a good idea of how it will go together and what to use but there is always something going to crop up.
Thanks about the pulse generator i hadn't considered that yet. But will bear it in mind.

The exhaust might need a bit of head scratching as whilst the 'Sporty' 4 branch and straight through is the easiest but will be too noisy, and the old system is too restrictive for when the 4.2 goes in, i think the 50th style system is the way. Just waiting for the opportunity to see one in the metal.

 

[SimonHobson]

When I EFId the 110, I chopped off the rear bit of the 110 Y pipe and welded it to the end of the Range Rover Y pipe I fitted. So I have RR twin pipe manifolds, downpipe and Y pipe mated to the standard 110 centre and rear sections.

Try this search and you'll find that it's come a few times. There's nothing fundamentally difficult, but a few details. If you keep the LT230 transfer box then no change to propshafts, if you use the Borg Warner box then the front shaft needs to be longer - I'd hazard a guess that the one form the donor might fit.

 

[Devon-Rover]

Hi.
I'll be keeping the LT230 as i want to decide when the Difflock is in or out.

Thanks also for the link that'll be very useful for information sake.

 

[kourgath]

Ro,

you can always just measure mine It is only the BW xfer box that pushes the props slighly out of place - the engine is in the standard position (anyway who needs to know when difflock is in or out - let the goo choose!)

14CUX is a pretty easy install, main issue is the speedo transducer cable to the speedo (PRC9555 I think) it is LR special order and quite expensive (I'm waiting for mine at the moment). Speedo transducer is needed so that the ECU knows when you are slowing down and so raises the tickover slightly to prevent it stalling at junctions rather than giving you engine braking (google tvr speedo 14cux). The rest is cheapo off what you have already ie. short cable from xfr box to speedo transducer and transducer itself. Once the engine is in the standard position there is acres of room behind and above the bellhousing which is just perfect for the airflow meter and air filter as well as a good place to stick the LPG vaporiser (close to the heater pipes). I know my wiring is somewhat messy but items have been carefully considered

Exhaust. 50th Anniversary ISTR uses the P38 tubular manifolds but if you are going to use your 4-into-1 tubulars when you stick in the 4.2 then stick with the simple old style cast single outlet manifolds and standard 3.5 pipes for starters (only at high revs are they all that restrictive).

LPG 50 litre (40 ltr effective) tank goes very nicely under the rear floor behind the rear x-member. Petrol tank under drivers seat in standard place. Again look over mine if you want. Not a huge distance available with my (sometimes 4.6) but no loss of rear space.

 

[Devon-Rover]

A bit of thread resurrection here.

Just to bring you up to speed i have had a little bit of progress after being bogged down last year with a busy trials season, then work taking a large chunk due to staff problems, Not to mention buying a series 3 getting it roadworthy and now trying to sell it.

Anyway.

yesterday i took the old 3.5 and the LT95 out. And today the engine and gearbox ensemble as a complete lump was taken out of the disco shell and plonked into the awaiting 90.

What we did learn is that

*Yes a standard V8 chassis that could take either a LT95 or LT85 will accept a V8 ZF auto on the exact same mounting holes. Points to remember
1 The Drivers gearbox mount (The Disco one) will need a tickle taken out of the top Corner so to clear the Chassis mount for the seatbox.
2 Maybe not applicable to all but, The Discovery engine rubbers appear to have a later and courser thread to them these don't fit on the early V8 chassis mounts you need the early rubbers.
3 It is possible to chuck the entire unit in whole (Engine and both boxes) Providing you remove all the tunnel from the 90 and the floor and the front panel and wings. and you have access to a Chunky digger / Tractor that can act as an engine crane.
4 The above is made easier if you remove the Hi/Lo mount and bracket.

Hear endeth todays lesson.

Tommorow is axle swap and part pilfering off the doner Disco.

 

[mowog]

Further edit re my post as you are fitting disco powertrain you will already have speed transducer supplying speed signal to ecu and for lecky disco speedo .

 

[MrChrome]

I've just been through this conversion to get around the London Emission Zone. We did have to modify the the middle cross member and notch it clear the propshaft. Also if you loose the cats you have to fit a different tune resistor otherwise it runs rich, they're about £10 and easy to change. I managed to get some sports headers and a mate fabricated a 3" stainless system which went from the headers into a turbo muffler and then ended in a td5 back box, for me its perfect - not too loud but you're left under no doubt that its a V8. As for fuel, I looked at lpg but the tank behind the cross member is too small and would give me too smaller range. So we fitted a td5 tank and I now run two petrol tanks. It gives me the range but obviously at a cost. My reasoning was to get the V8 to run as well possible and live with it, helping to do that I bough a ecu scanner specific to 14CUX https://shengltd.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=275 . It works well and has just told me that my MAF is ******ed which is probably causing my rich running problem, I think its a wise investment to buy one of these scanners.

 

[Sandy M.]

Just a quickie, but depending on your choice of exhaust, you may not have space for an LPG tank behind the crossmember.

 

[Neil]

As posted, its a straight switch over for the engine. The exhausts will need a bit of mod unless you stick with the 3.5 carb manifolds, as they didnt do a twin downpipe 90 or 110 . You will need a pulse generator for efi ecu either from gearbox or in speedo line . gearbox is straight swap as well . You will need trans cooler and pipes. HTSH

They did do a twin downpipe exhaust for the 90/110 V8. It was for the US market models. Just don't ask the price!

DO NOT buy an exhaust from double S, been there, done that. IT was a piece of sh1te that fitted where it touched, almost. It was also made out of really low grade stainless and is rusting enthusiastically. If you want a decent stainless exhaust made to fit your truck and guaranteed for ever, go to pd gough near nottingham. They will put your truck up on the ramp and bend you a bespoke system, in really high grade stainless, in a couple of hours for not much more than the price of the crappy double s system.
www.pdgough.com

If you de-cat it, next stop is Mark Adams to have a bespoke chip burned. He did the work on my 110. First run produced 47hp, by the time he had finished re-writing the fuel map it was making 95hp (this was measured at the tyres on a 4 wheel rolling road.) The figures might seem a bit low for a V8 but it was a lo compression 3.5 fitted with a 3.9 hotwire injection and the corrected figure was something over 150hp, at the crank.

 

[Devon-Rover]

Hi All.

I have the tune resistor already due to the de cat on my other Disco and for other EFI related doings. As for the Rear tank as far as i know from looking the TD5 style back box the 50th's run isn't all that intrusive to the rear where the tank is planning to be. Double SS did supply the exhaust for my disco and again it hasn't rusted and so i'm not going to fuss when going to them for the 90's system when funds permit.
The "Cooling pack" is the next hurdle, getting the rad and engine / gearbox oil coolers sorted will need some thinking. Still need a 50th to have a nose about to see how they do it. as A 50th Rad will be better (I hope) as it should be all standardish. The internet seem to suggest a TD rad will work but that just isn't the same and not a route i really want to take unless necessary.
I do need to sell my series 3 so to fund this and that will now hinge on how quickly i finish this.

 

[SimonHobson]

Ahh, the rad
My local radiator place say they cannot get the oil cooler parts any more. I stripped down an old td rad (it was beyond repair), but failed to notice that the V8 header tanks are smaller and don't have room for the oil cooler. My next plan was to get a td rad and have it recored - and have them put the extra oil cooler in the left hand side to give it the two coolers - just need another td rad.
If someone can see if the 50th Anniv rad has the same setup then that would be worth looking at - otherwise I was resigning myself to possibly going to Allisport, they quoted me £490+VAT last year for a drop in replacement (in alli of course) with two oil coolers fitted.

 

[V8_Disco]

one of the mags used a RRC hairbrush cooler inside the bumper (with grill) etc looked ok and makes the rad choice cheeper and simpiler

A

 

[SimonHobson]

Just to add ...
On the RR classic, the standard setup is this :
In the right hand end (cold header) of the rad is an engine oil cooler. A standard td rad will deal with this end I think.

For the gearbox, the oil goes through two coolers. I think it first goes through a "bottle brush"* in front of the rad, then through an oil 'cooler' in the left hand header tank of the rad (ie the hot end). I believe this is so as to get the fluid up to working temp quickly as it will be heated by the coolant once the engine is up to temp and the stat opens. If the transmission fluid is getting too hot and the primary cooler can't cope, then heat will be transferred into the coolant and so dissipated in the main rad.
* I describe it like that as it is a straight piece of pipe with lots of wire loops welded/brazed onto it, and it has a certain resemblance to a bottle brush !

 

[Neil]

I think the rad in mine is from a V8 Discovery, It was only 3 core when I bought it from fleablag and it cost more than a new radiator to have the 4th core added,

There was an oil cooler rad offered for the V8 110 parts numbers were ESR204 from vin FA429128 to vin JA922098 then ESR1678 from Vin JA919099

 

[muttleyd]

Look at griffin for an exhaust. Spoke to them at billing and they were the only one who could offer a system as I wanted it. Options for lambda and side exit. Would use std 3.9 twin outlet manifolds. Surely any defender v8 rad will do and cooler mounted on front crossmember. I assume mine is just rangie bits with custom pipes

 

[SimonHobson]

Surely any defender v8 rad will do and cooler mounted on front crossmember. I assume mine is just rangie bits with custom pipes

TWO oil coolers (one for engine oil, one for transmission fluid) - and you still don't get the thermostatic control of transmission fluid temperature that the donor RR would have had. See post 17 above.

Now, it's debatable whether the factory fit setup was the best option, but you can be sure they tested it in a variety of environments - presumably including some very hot and very cold climates.
I do have a niggly suspicion that the engine oil is over-cooled for a lot of usage since there is no thermostat - so when there is cold air going though the rad and light engine load, the engine oil will be cooled quite significantly by the cold water at that end of the rad. Too much oil cooling can be nearly as bad as too little - over time the oil gets quite wet as the water doesn't boil off.
However, the transmission fluid setup does (as it's been explained to me) make sense.