Simple clutch upgrade - is it possible/feasible? :-)

[Georgedubya]

Hi all,
Well, as a change from seeking info about my mate's Series IIa's SLS brakes (I WILL sort them out soon - honest!) I'm planning, on Monday, to fit a new clutch for him. Funny, I thought I'd retired from the motor trade........

My problems are 1. Sourcing genuine clutch components. These babies are heavy and I only plan to fit a new clutch once! I fear, however, that some 'pattern' makes may mean I'll be having the gearbox in and out like a Fiddler's elbow! I wonder, has anyone any practical experience of a decent make/combination of makes that are as good as OEM?

2. Is it possible to replace the earlier spring clutch assy with a diaphragm unit? If so, do I need to replace the clutch actuating mechanism, that is slave cylinder, bracketery, master cylinder etc?

As ever, any words of wisdom will be gratefully received and I look forward to any views that may be forthcoming.

Best wishes as always
George

 

[Neil]

Typically a manufacturer does not make their own clutch units. They will buy them in.

I have used Borg & Beck, Valeo and (currently) A.P. Lockheed racing (I kid you not) all with excellent results

 

[robwlondon]

I seem to recal there may be a range of sizes. The one on my 109 is a 9" and the same as a quite a lot of Jaguars so its heavy duty, available and not too expensive. I would expect the diaphram clutch to be a straight swap for the spring clutch - when diaphram clutches came in they were also sold as replacements so it was common to take a spring plate out and put a diaphram one in.

 

[mistericeman]

I seem to recal there may be a range of sizes. The one on my 109 is a 9" and the same as a quite a lot of Jaguars so its heavy duty, available and not too expensive. I would expect the diaphram clutch to be a straight swap for the spring clutch - when diaphram clutches came in they were also sold as replacements so it was common to take a spring plate out and put a diaphram one in.

Along with the suitable release bearing .....

The S2/S2A release mechanism is a good deal different to a S3 diaphragm type

 

[robwlondon]

Quite right! I should have said "correct" diaphram clutch, I suspect there's quite a few that are not "correct" but look similar. Bolt pitch and centre depth certainly vary as well as diameter and thickness. Key is to get a part number then there are some great websites that list all the interchagablities. Then you just have to work through every number finding stock and prices. There can be quite a big range of prices on the same part.

 

[Land Raver]

Borg & Beck on mine - no complaints.

if you 'only plan to do it once' then I would also think about replacing the spigot bush and rear main seal at the same time.

 

[secondjeremy]

There are a number of combinations that will fit. There are dowels on the flywheel that may cause problems if changing from one size to another. Dowels are available for a few pence but can be difficult to remove.

Assuming you still have all S2 components (hydraulic cylinder attached to loads of daft linkage on the off side of the bellhousing) you'll need a diaphragm clutch with the ring in the centre. If you've got a S3 gearbox (car-type sealed release bearing and cylinder on the near side) you need one without the ring.

AP driveline are apparently the successors to Borg and Beck and work nicely. List of available bits here:

http://www.paddockspares.com/parts-and-accessories/land-rover-series-2-and-3/clutch.html

 

[Extreedoc]

Bear in mind that if you order a plate and cover from Paddocks they will supply a release bearing for free(!) but, it's a Britpart(!!!) The one they sent me when I bought an AP clutch assembly currently resides god knows where, but nowhere near my Land Rover you betcha. I ordered a quality one (release bearing)from my local supplier and got a Luk, still operating sweetly, 5/6 years on.

 

[secondjeremy]

S2/2a release bearing is part of the gearbox.

If you need a release bearing you have a S3 box. I find it helps to fill them with more grease - spray grease seems a god way of getting it right into the bearing.

 

[Georgedubya]

Thanks for that, Neil. Sadly, as the Series 2a's are getting older, its getting harder to get new early clutches to OE spec. It seems diaphragm clutches are easier to obtain, but ours is the early spring type. I've emailed AP for a price/availability. Down the years I have fitted numerous clutches from all the makers you list but it seems that these days even some of their output is suspect.......

Once again, thanks for your input.

 

[Georgedubya]

Borg & Beck on mine - no complaints.

if you 'only plan to do it once' then I would also think about replacing the spigot bush and rear main seal at the same time.

I plan to do it once because it has lasted nigh on 10 years since I rebuilt the engine and fitted a new clutch. By the time it needs another one (assuming the replacement lasts as long!) then I'll be pushing 70 and you know what you can do with your clutches by then! LOL

 

[Neil]

I plan to do it once because it has lasted nigh on 10 years since I rebuilt the engine and fitted a new clutch. By the time it needs another one (assuming the replacement lasts as long!) then I'll be pushing 70 and you know what you can do with your clutches by then! LOL

Know the feeling, just swapped the clutch on mine (whilst changing chassis) Now the back axle has started to get noisy. Hopefully once that is changed I should have covered enough of the "perishables" to see me to the end of my driving days. I know i should really give up the truck and buy a more environmentally friendly small hatch, but Sheesh they are boring to drive and 'kin expensive to maintain.

All of this is presuming the gummernent continues to allow us the "privilege" of driving.

 

[Georgedubya]

Bear in mind that if you order a plate and cover from Paddocks they will supply a release bearing for free(!) but, it's a Britpart(!!!) The one they sent me when I bought an AP clutch assembly currently resides god knows where, but nowhere near my Land Rover you betcha. I ordered a quality one (release bearing)from my local supplier and got a Luk, still operating sweetly, 5/6 years on.

Thanks for the tip. I can't understand how 'you-know-who' part keep getting away with it! is it a case of 'The only (cheap!) alternative I wonder?......

 

[Georgedubya]

Know the feeling, just swapped the clutch on mine (whilst changing chassis) Now the back axle has started to get noisy. Hopefully once that is changed I should have covered enough of the "perishables" to see me to the end of my driving days. I know i should really give up the truck and buy a more environmentally friendly small hatch, but Sheesh they are boring to drive and 'kin expensive to maintain.

All of this is presuming the gummernent continues to allow us the "privilege" of driving.

They will - we're a good source of income! LOL

 

[Georgedubya]

S2/2a release bearing is part of the gearbox.

If you need a release bearing you have a S3 box. I find it helps to fill them with more grease - spray grease seems a god way of getting it right into the bearing.

Thanks for that. To be honest, I can't remember much about the clutch assy - it has been 10 years!

 

[robwlondon]

Know the feeling, just swapped the clutch on mine (whilst changing chassis) Now the back axle has started to get noisy. Hopefully once that is changed I should have covered enough of the "perishables" to see me to the end of my driving days. I know i should really give up the truck and buy a more environmentally friendly small hatch, but Sheesh they are boring to drive and 'kin expensive to maintain.

All of this is presuming the gummernent continues to allow us the "privilege" of driving.

Take your time, my mother is just about (end of this month) to sell her car and stop driving at 91, She drives a 25year old 190E Merc which has quite a turn of speed so its fair to say there is some relief alll round!

 

[mistericeman]

As above .....anything "Deep" inside needs to be bought without it coming in a blue box ....Ragging gearboxes in and out is the work of young folks ....
Last time i removed the gearbox from the Mrs' Tdi powered 88" without using an engine crane I regretted it for a week afterwards .
Even with a crane it's still tedious .
Fit Kwality stuff and hopefully fit once .

That said I had a New old stock Champion plug fail on the FFR weekend just gone in Barmouth North Wales ....Fortunately I had kept the old ones AND even more fortunately it was No1 plug as it was honking it down when I came to swap it lol.

 

[Georgedubya]

As above .....anything "Deep" inside needs to be bought without it coming in a blue box ....Ragging gearboxes in and out is the work of young folks ....
Last time i removed the gearbox from the Mrs' Tdi powered 88" without using an engine crane I regretted it for a week afterwards .
Even with a crane it's still tedious .
Fit Kwality stuff and hopefully fit once .

That said I had a New old stock Champion plug fail on the FFR weekend just gone in Barmouth North Wales ....Fortunately I had kept the old ones AND even more fortunately it was No1 plug as it was honking it down when I came to swap it lol.

Ah, the pleasures of driving vehicles from yesteryear eh? LOL

 

[mistericeman]

^^^^

I wouldn't have it any other way to be fair ....least you can stand a chance of fixing it by the side of the road ....AND not much modern would fit camping gear for us along with 5 dogs (Camping guff mostly goes in the Sankey so hounds have comfort in the back lol )

 

[Georgedubya]

^^^^

I wouldn't have it any other way to be fair ....least you can stand a chance of fixing it by the side of the road ....AND not much modern would fit camping gear for us along with 5 dogs (Camping guff mostly goes in the Sankey so hounds have comfort in the back lol )

Can't fault you on that - long may you continue to enjoy it!