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Thanks Baden Powell

Thermostadt

Thermostadt

Overdrive!
I was a cub, a scout, a venture scout and then a leader and a helper at cubs. I worked on service teams on sites for years. I stayed active in the organisation right up until I moved out from my parent's house.

I had the best time a lad could have. I made friends who will stay with me for life. I met the best people and learnt a lot.

Looking back it's a miracle some of us weren't willed. Never a camp passed without a child having to be taken to hospital. It was such a great time for a young lad – dirty, dangerous and carefree. Everything a young boy needs.

If there was nothing going on over a weekend I would pack a rucksack when I got in from school, stroll down the road to call on Malc and we'd hike off to the local Scout site for the weekend. Every holiday we'd (me and some other Scouting chums) get on a train and go to the Lakes, Wales, or we'd walk Offers Dyke or… well, anything. When one of us got a driving license we all chipped together and got a van and we went away most weekends.

I'd talk to friends at school and ask what they did at the weekend. They'd tell me what a great time they had hanging about outside MacD's with a bottle of cider and ten tabs. I'd look at them and remember my weekend canoeing or climbing or camping or potholing or paragliding or…

I learnt to be self-sufficient. When I moved out from my parents I knew how to cook and look after myself. I was well developed, well rounded and I knew right from wrong.

My Mum cut an article out of a weekend paper a few months ago that talked about the success of the Scouting movement. It said that ex Scouts would be happier, have better jobs and stay in relationships longer. In fact the government was looking at how it could capitalize on the successes of the Scouts, which is a shame because they'll mess the whole thing up.

I was excited to see Auntie Beeb were showing a programme to commemorate the 100 years of Scouts.

What a crock the programme was. It was as much as I could do not to turn it over. Why did they select so many people to talk about the Scouts who had spent no more than six months in the organisation? I couldn't work out what the programme was trying to show, apart from it being a vehicle for nobodies to get on telly.

What a wasted opportunity for the Beeb to talk about a great man (BP) and a fantastic organisation.

On a side note I have to say that allowing girls into Scouts ruined it for me.
 
I didnt see the BBC program but I agree absolutely with all your other comments apart from the girls bit.

I was a Scout, a Venture Scout, Scout Leader, Venture Scout Leader and ADC Venture Scout. I met my best friends at 10 years old and we are still all friends including my first Scout leader 35 years on.

At the time I was a Venture Scout Leader girls were first allowed to join and I think they actually improved the unit by bringing in extra skills and a different way of thinking. My daughter is 7 and has had to join the Rainbows, I wanted her in Beavers but in my area they are all full where at my old Scout group they are thinking of closing due to numbers.

I do think (and will probably be corrected by Roger) that due to regulations I would not want to be involved now, too much political correctness and having to be careful of various accusations. We used to go every year and camp above the snowline in the Yorkshire Dales, the boys used to come into our tent and play cards which warmed our tent before they went back to their very cold tent to go to bed, they never sussed this was the reason but I am led to believe a leader cannot even go into the Scouts tent now - oh how things have changed. Excellent memories.

Ramble over.

Andrew
 
Great memories and great days indeed.

Looking back I'm sure we couldn't do now what we did then, which is a shame.

I remember every Thursday of the annual summer camp we'd all be driven away in a van by the leaders. They'd then drop us off in our groups, with a map, and told to make our own way back to camp. No way would that be allowed now, which is a loss to the young people.

There was always a broken bone or someone needing stitches. Being dangerous is something genetically build in to boys and I think it's important to allow them the freedom to get into a little bit of trouble.

We're probably about the same age because I was a Venture leader when girls were allowed in. I agree that they bring in a different dynamic, but for me it lost so much of what it offered me. For me it was young boys, getting away from everything and doing what boys did with none of the problems of having girls about.

I remember going away with the scouts to help out at a summer camp just before I moved out of the area and some of the boys insisting on washing their hair. As a Venture leader, who wasn't much older than most of the Ventures, having young women about kind of killed the 'all boys together' feel that the organisation had. There was also a strange new feeling of competitiveness that wasn't there before, where the sexes wanted to look the best towards each other, which I suppose is natural.

I'm all for fairness between the sexes, but I believe it is important that boys and girls are separated for some activities because they have different needs. It's easier for boys to develop if they are given a male only environment to do it in.

I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the Scouting movement quite so much if girls had been included.
 
I'd like to hear Roger's view of the current organisation. I can only imagine how stifling the new rules are and how this must limit what the youngsters get from things. Part of what I learnt was how to deal with situations. I think it's much better to teach someone risk assessment than to remove all risk. How else are they to learn how to deal with the inevitabilities of life?

I'm also not sure that I like the idea of the new uniform. I always thought that the militaristic approach was a strength. It was certainly one of Baden's ideas. He wanted to instil the feeling of brotherhood that you get in the armed forces into the young.
 
Again I agree with you, I was looking at the introduction of girls from a leaders point of view and not a Scout.

Wide games, Midnight hikes, 3 peaks in the dark, going to camp in the back of a removal van sat on the bench seats with luggage piled all around, could go on forever, sounding like a sad old git!

Talking of competition, not just brought on my mixed units, when I was in the Venture Scouts the group went to Guernsey one year for the annual camp, we were warned no drinking on the ferry - we were all absolutely paraletic, we couldnt put up our tent for nearly a day and a day or so later when the Scouts decided to lift our tent off us in the middle of the night they couldnt lift it because of all the suits and velvet jackets hung up on the ridge - in a single sex group.

Memories

Andrew
 
When I was in the Scouts the Scout leader used to post my broken glasses back to my home from every annual camp so my parents could have them repaired for when I returned home.

Like you say, it would be good to hear Rogers take on all this.

Andrew
 
I did not see the programme and, TBH, I have limited knowledge of the Scout movement. But I know a few people who work with young people and they claim it has become increasingly difficult to organize various 'outdoor activities', and this is due, in part, to the litigious nature of our society and its increasing aversion to risk. This appears to tally with your experiences. Interesting.

Ex
 
I was a cub, then a scout, but left scouting when I felt it wasn't doing anything for me anymore...
Then I heard that Ventures had girls in the unit too - so I rejoined!
Best thing I ever did - stayed on as a leader too, until around my mid 20's.
I'm not sure if having girls in cubs & scouts is a good thing or not - but I doubt Ventures would be as well attended if it was single sex.

It was definately a movement that (in teenage years) saved me from hanging around with tinnies on street corners, probably getting into trouble. Best thing that happened to me at that time. :)

PS - it was also partly responsible for making me want a Landy - most units like ours rattled around in the back of borrowed transits when we went away for camps - but one unit had a SIII LWB SW - so cool - we used to all climb on it to go back to the camp over the fields after the pub, inside full, roof full, bonnet, wings, front bumper - reckon we got around 30 kids on it!
 
Given that Roger hasn't replied yet - I'll (as a current Assistant Scout Leader) give you my viewpoint.

All leaders are guilt of everything till you can prove that you didn't do anything. I cannot take Scouts camping untill I hold a camping permit - I've got it so not a problem. I cannot take the Scouts on any water activty without having a W form (no prizes for working out what the W stands for), can not take them walking in the mountains (about x feet - can't remember at the mo) without a M form (again no prizes for guessing what M stands for. You have to do continious training, although doing my first aid counted last year, if you go in scouts tent must have two leaders to ensure nothing bad happens, must not play contact games with him - as playing these games may mean that you happen to touch them. All activities should have a risk assessment carried out on them before you do them..


Rant over - why do I still do it, cause as much of a pain in the a**e that it can be I feel very strongly that there should be opitunities for the young people to go camping, walking - doing stuff that tey woudln't normally get to do -have to work with people they don't want to, its all about turning them into more rounded people. I also enjoy teaching them skills, like map reading etc -

Also it can be a great laugh. I could tell many stories about scouts and some of the things they do and say...
 
I agree with why you do it and I do agree to a certain extent with the certificates you have to have purely from a safety point of view.

I know a couple of years before I left they brought new regulations in for mountain activities. It didnt bother me because I had all the winter certificates etc so I could still take them anywhere but it did seem funny at the time that my assistant who I had grown up with through Scouts and had as much experiance as me couldnt even take them up a hill in summer. Now it appears to be much worse.

Andrew
 
Well, I was going to agreee with every word you said Thermostadt - until the girls bit! I watched the programme, as did my colleagues in the Troop and we were all left with the same feeling of disappointment that the presentation was still the same old 'nudge, nudge - wink, wink, where's your short trousers then - what have you done with your 'toggle'. As I often point out, short trousers were thirty-eight years ago. And we didn't give them up easily, either. I was a Rover/ASL at the time, we were very proud of our uniforms and not the least bit bothered about appearing in public in shorts. Even today, I wear shorts on every occasion I can.

The Scout movement is often, indeed was in the programme, portrayed as a slightly jokey, smirk, smirk outfit that is slightly irrelevant with todays 'street smart techno kids'. A Sunday Times article once described us as; 'dreadfully naff'. It isn't. I happen to believe it is not only the biggest (30 million world wide) youth organisation, but the best. I see it as our/my job to help kids 'be the best they can be' and if I didn't believe the children who pass through our care grow up more capable, more caring and better able to deal with everything life throws at them, then I wouldn't do it. By the way, when all these 'street wise', sophisticated children are away from the truely dreadful 'peer pressure' they suffer and given space, a little responsibility and time with others, then they revert to what they really are - kids. And that is good. They are not allowed, by all sorts of modern and largely fatuous conventions, to be kids for long enough.

The girls made almost no difference to the way a Scout Troop operates. We were very concerned that we would have to make all sorts of changes, but from the first girl who walked through our door - Mary, she was twelve - we made incredibly few changes. Of course there was the issue of rough games. Oh yes, you all know about rough games and girls. I bet you don't.

At first the girls wore skirts and were a bit reluctant, but then they soon sorted that by wearing cycling shorts under the skirts - then they joined in. Now boys, even modern boys, are brought up more or less brain washed. You never, nerver, ever hit a girl. You can thump your brother when he gets on your nerves and even another bloke if he does the same, but never hit a girl. Girls are not. As a result, they tend to 'pile in'. When you have a thirteen year old boy being held down and pummelled by four, eleven to fourteen year old girls, two things happen. One; he resents it because he can't hit back and two; he doesn't know where to put his hands. And the boys don't like it. We've had to drag girls out of a scrum by the scruff of the neck, because a thirteen year old girl is kneeing a boy of the same age. "Ellenor! Will you stop that!"

Finally, Morrisey siad; 'they're not really investing me.' Oh yes they were Neil and, unless you had your fingers crossed and you didn't mean the words; 'On my honour I promise .....' then you were making the same promise Dave78, Thermostadt, Legionnaire, me and 30 million other people made when we committed to joining the Scout movement.

Roger.
 
Missed the program, so I can't really say anything about it. I'm an explorer scout, and I've been in scouting since being a beaver. We didn't have any girls in any of my groups in beavers, cubs or scouts, but we have one girl in our explorer group. I don't see how she makes any difference, if anything she makes it more fun ;)
I'm going for a day with a load of guides tomorrow, getting ready for the jamboree in Essex, should be fun :D
 
I remember my first annual camp 11 yrs old or so and we went to a site just outside Exeter, what a great time, especialy being left in Exeter city centre when the coach back to the site left without me. To cut a long story short, a map from whsmiths, 2 buses and a 4 mile hike later I arrived back at the site. The only person there was Dave one of the venture scouts who had been left behind just in case I turned. Apparently the rest of the troop, the leaders and half the Devon police force are scouring Exeter for me. If I remember correctly I got a badge fro that little adventure:D:D.

I started of in the cubs, ended a patrol leader in the scouts and went on to be a venture scout for a few years. Taught me an awful lot about being part of a team but also to be self-reliant a contradiction but true none the less.
 
AndyJWB said:
Missed the program, so I can't really say anything about it. I'm an explorer scout, and I've been in scouting since being a beaver. We didn't have any girls in any of my groups in beavers, cubs or scouts, but we have one girl in our explorer group. I don't see how she makes any difference, if anything she makes it more fun ;)
I'm going for a day with a load of guides tomorrow, getting ready for the jamboree in Essex, should be fun :D
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Well done Andy and if you are really going to the Jambo, then I envy you. I always wanted to go to a Jamboree and going to the 100 year one would have been wonderful, but there's no room for old Scoutmasters, like me. :D

Roger.
 
Looking forward to it, reckon it'll be good fun, and should meet some awesome people. Chosen to go to the jamboree instead of France with my family :eek:
 
AndyJWB said:
Looking forward to it, reckon it'll be good fun, and should meet some awesome people. Chosen to go to the jamboree instead of France with my family :eek:
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Wise move mate! You will be able to go to France at almost anytime - you'll only be able to go to the Centenary Jamboree once in a lifetime. If its anything like EuroJam - and its likely to be squillions better - you'll never forget it, ever. You could well meet people you'll stay friends with for the rest of your life.

I've been a Scout since I was eight and I've still got friends I was in the Cubs with!

Roger.

PS: If there is a promise reaffirmation ceremony - I bet there'll be a lump in your throat.
 
Roger Whittle said:
Wise move mate! You will be able to go to France at almost anytime - you'll only be able to go to the Centenary Jamboree once in a lifetime. If its anything like EuroJam - and its likely to be squillions better - you'll never forget it, ever. You could well meet people you'll stay friends with for the rest of your life.

I've been a Scout since I was eight and I've still got friends I was in the Cubs with!

Roger.

PS: If there is a promise reaffirmation ceremony - I bet there'll be a lump in your throat.
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Already met 2 new mates from my area that I didn't know before the practise camps. I now talk to them on t'internet all the time, I imagine I'll meet more at the jamboree. Hopefully some nice Swedes ;) :p
 
Dave78 said:
Given that Roger hasn't replied yet - I'll (as a current Assistant Scout Leader) give you my viewpoint.

All leaders are guilt of everything till you can prove that you didn't do anything. I cannot take Scouts camping untill I hold a camping permit - I've got it so not a problem. I cannot take the Scouts on any water activty without having a W form (no prizes for working out what the W stands for), can not take them walking in the mountains (about x feet - can't remember at the mo) without a M form (again no prizes for guessing what M stands for. You have to do continious training, although doing my first aid counted last year, if you go in scouts tent must have two leaders to ensure nothing bad happens, must not play contact games with him - as playing these games may mean that you happen to touch them. All activities should have a risk assessment carried out on them before you do them..


Rant over - why do I still do it, cause as much of a pain in the a**e that it can be I feel very strongly that there should be opitunities for the young people to go camping, walking - doing stuff that tey woudln't normally get to do -have to work with people they don't want to, its all about turning them into more rounded people. I also enjoy teaching them skills, like map reading etc -

Also it can be a great laugh. I could tell many stories about scouts and some of the things they do and say...
Click to expand...



Hello mate, interesting post.

I am not totally against writen risk assessments etc, and I would guess that Scout leaders have always carried out some form of risk assessment? I am also of the viewpoint that people who work with young people should be appropriately qualified, and CRB checked etc. TBH mate, your description does not sound that bad, although some of the bureaucracy sounds a little tedious, particularly as you are volunteers.

Again, I know very little about the Scout movement, but I am a great believer in both the physical and mental developmental benefits of outdoor pursuits, sports, team building etc. and the Scouts appears to offer a relatively safe and structured environment for these activities.

Ex
 
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