He probably provoked it somehow... we will never really know will we...
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3.5 V8 Efi from a K-reg Disco
- Thread starter cappers
- Start date
He probably provoked it somehow... we will never really know will we...
As this seems to be the repository for stories about my 90, here for posterity are some updates posted elsewhere.
2 Sep 2020
Since the conversion the rad needs regular toping up as it goes down a couple of inches over time and the expansion tank seems to fill up more than it should.
There is no over pressurisation, no fumes or bubbles in the coolant, oil clean no emulsion, exhaust not steamy, no running problems and no obvious leaks.
The expansion tank (original from the 2.5P) has a small feed from the top of the rad, an overflow tube and a large bore pipe from the bottom which I think originally joined the rad outlet hose to the water pump, but is blanked off.
With the large bottom outlet closed, on cooling the water should return via the small pipe to the rad top...but it couldn't as the outlet was above the water line?! So I fed some clear fish tank tubing through to the bottom of the expansion tank, the other end into the outlet tube which was reconnected to the nipple. The inner tube fitted nice and snug. Filled the rad and plenum tower, checked the expansion tank and ran it to thermostat opening, monitored this by touch and an eye on the VDO temp gauge (~88*C). Checked levels and went for a drive. On return, let it cool a bit, carefully released the expansion tank lid with just a 'pssst', no eruption of scalding coolant, burping or gurgling. Started to remove the rad filler but water seeped out almost immediately, ditto the plenum filler tube. Checked again once cool and coolant fills the rad properly and expansion tank is at the right level and not overfull. Runs at ~85-90.
2 Sep 2020
Since the conversion the rad needs regular toping up as it goes down a couple of inches over time and the expansion tank seems to fill up more than it should.
There is no over pressurisation, no fumes or bubbles in the coolant, oil clean no emulsion, exhaust not steamy, no running problems and no obvious leaks.
The expansion tank (original from the 2.5P) has a small feed from the top of the rad, an overflow tube and a large bore pipe from the bottom which I think originally joined the rad outlet hose to the water pump, but is blanked off.
With the large bottom outlet closed, on cooling the water should return via the small pipe to the rad top...but it couldn't as the outlet was above the water line?! So I fed some clear fish tank tubing through to the bottom of the expansion tank, the other end into the outlet tube which was reconnected to the nipple. The inner tube fitted nice and snug. Filled the rad and plenum tower, checked the expansion tank and ran it to thermostat opening, monitored this by touch and an eye on the VDO temp gauge (~88*C). Checked levels and went for a drive. On return, let it cool a bit, carefully released the expansion tank lid with just a 'pssst', no eruption of scalding coolant, burping or gurgling. Started to remove the rad filler but water seeped out almost immediately, ditto the plenum filler tube. Checked again once cool and coolant fills the rad properly and expansion tank is at the right level and not overfull. Runs at ~85-90.
12 Sep 2020
A mate of a mate repaired the rot in both bulkhead corners today.
The holes were about 10p size, the window surrounds and door pillar areas were solid but quite a lot of the outer skin needed removal. Fortunately the second internal skin was ok. The passenger side was the worse of the two.
Cut out the rot, filleted and spot welded in new plates cut to size and sanded it all flat (it's a metal fabrication workshop with all the tools). Slapped on some zinc cold galv primer then some red primer, ready for whenever I feel like a paint job.
A mate of a mate repaired the rot in both bulkhead corners today.
The holes were about 10p size, the window surrounds and door pillar areas were solid but quite a lot of the outer skin needed removal. Fortunately the second internal skin was ok. The passenger side was the worse of the two.
Cut out the rot, filleted and spot welded in new plates cut to size and sanded it all flat (it's a metal fabrication workshop with all the tools). Slapped on some zinc cold galv primer then some red primer, ready for whenever I feel like a paint job.
Attachments
Whilst the bulkhead was being repaired I removed the 12" Kenlowe pusher fan and reinstalled the 11 blade viscous fan and hub.
I never felt that a single 12" fan was enough for a V8 and although it did the job, in the recent hot weather in slow moving traffic the engine temperature has has been cycling up and down, 80-100, averaging high 80s-low 90s. It was only used because it came with the original 2.5P and when it was converted to a V8 there was no fan shroud for the viscous and the consensus was without a shroud the viscous would not be much use. But I don't like the electric fan and have to keep an eye on the temp gauge and wait for it to kick in when I think it's getting too hot. However as the viscous fan sits very close the rad (the hub is about 2" behind the rad) and I figured it couldn't be worse than the electric, even without the shroud, and it moves far more air than the electric.
Went for a drive, mix of town traffic, country lanes, fast A road and then town traffic again. Temp went to high 80s as stat opened then went down to low 80s and stayed there no matter the driving conditions . Obviously the ambient temps are lower than a few weeks ago but even in the current weather the electric fan came on in slow traffic.
I have a ?V8 shroud and with a bit of modification and fettling should be able to make it fit. That will concentrate the suction over the whole rad and protect fingers and make it look correct.
If things go wrong I'll post my findings but I think (hope) this is going to work OK.
I never felt that a single 12" fan was enough for a V8 and although it did the job, in the recent hot weather in slow moving traffic the engine temperature has has been cycling up and down, 80-100, averaging high 80s-low 90s. It was only used because it came with the original 2.5P and when it was converted to a V8 there was no fan shroud for the viscous and the consensus was without a shroud the viscous would not be much use. But I don't like the electric fan and have to keep an eye on the temp gauge and wait for it to kick in when I think it's getting too hot. However as the viscous fan sits very close the rad (the hub is about 2" behind the rad) and I figured it couldn't be worse than the electric, even without the shroud, and it moves far more air than the electric.
Went for a drive, mix of town traffic, country lanes, fast A road and then town traffic again. Temp went to high 80s as stat opened then went down to low 80s and stayed there no matter the driving conditions . Obviously the ambient temps are lower than a few weeks ago but even in the current weather the electric fan came on in slow traffic.
I have a ?V8 shroud and with a bit of modification and fettling should be able to make it fit. That will concentrate the suction over the whole rad and protect fingers and make it look correct.
If things go wrong I'll post my findings but I think (hope) this is going to work OK.
19 Sep 2020
Since removing the electric fan and fitting the viscous fan (see above) the engine has stayed at a constant running temp (low 80s) even in slow moving stop-start traffic during the hot spell the other day (28-30C ambient)
This is without the fan shroud so I'm happy.
However a number of web posts state that without a shroud the fan is far less effective and as I had an old V8 one lying about which doesn't fit as is, I decided to do some surgery on it. Short story, I cut it in half and secured the top half to the rad.
Fan is central to the now half hole with a 1" gap between the blade tips and the shroud and the blades are about 2" away from the rad. It looks neater and saves any stray fingers from touching the fan. A kitchen cloth draped on the louvre panel with the engine idling from cold was sucked to the panel, very strongly in the centre and also on the sides away from the fan enough to keep it suspended.
Will keep an eye on temp but I think this set up works fine.
Update 4 Oct 2020
Runs at a constant low 80s now, normal driving, in slow traffic and at speed. Ok it's not 30C outside now but she was fine in traffic jams a week ago in the last of the hot spell (25-28C). The electric fan did bring the temp down to the low 80s too but not before it crept up into the 90s, now it just stays steady at operating temp. Nice
Since removing the electric fan and fitting the viscous fan (see above) the engine has stayed at a constant running temp (low 80s) even in slow moving stop-start traffic during the hot spell the other day (28-30C ambient)
This is without the fan shroud so I'm happy.However a number of web posts state that without a shroud the fan is far less effective and as I had an old V8 one lying about which doesn't fit as is, I decided to do some surgery on it. Short story, I cut it in half and secured the top half to the rad.
Fan is central to the now half hole with a 1" gap between the blade tips and the shroud and the blades are about 2" away from the rad. It looks neater and saves any stray fingers from touching the fan. A kitchen cloth draped on the louvre panel with the engine idling from cold was sucked to the panel, very strongly in the centre and also on the sides away from the fan enough to keep it suspended.
Will keep an eye on temp but I think this set up works fine.
Update 4 Oct 2020
Runs at a constant low 80s now, normal driving, in slow traffic and at speed. Ok it's not 30C outside now but she was fine in traffic jams a week ago in the last of the hot spell (25-28C). The electric fan did bring the temp down to the low 80s too but not before it crept up into the 90s, now it just stays steady at operating temp. Nice
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I read this whole thread today and an interesting write up and pictures 
thanks for posting it .
thanks for posting it .
Here's a little irritation rather than a major problem
On my previous EFi V8s the fuel pump primed on turning the ignition then switched off and waited for a spark signal before running the pump again after the initial prime. My conversion doesn't. The pump just stays on. Has something been wired incorrectly? Does it matter?
The issues I see are it makes the initial start up a bit rich, I can smell it, and if I was involved in a crash the fuel pump would still run if the engine stalled as no inertia switch is fitted.
I changed the fuel pump relay for known good one but it is still the same, pump runs constantly with no priming step. Furthermore the fuel pump runs even with the fuel pump relay removed so it must have been wired independently of the ECU.
Removing the main relay prevents starting. The main and fuel pump relay wiring doesn't look by the book either.
I need to check that pin 12 (MR) and pin 16 (FPR) aren't earthing somewhere and that pin 19 is getting the ignition pulse via terminal 86 on the FPR.
If it isn't them it can only be a dodgy ECU or more likely a funky wiring setup. Time to get out the probe
This is the wiring scheme I'm working to (adapted from the Disco1 and RRC manuals):
Any bright ideas appreciated. I'll update as and when I sort it out.
On my previous EFi V8s the fuel pump primed on turning the ignition then switched off and waited for a spark signal before running the pump again after the initial prime. My conversion doesn't. The pump just stays on. Has something been wired incorrectly? Does it matter?
The issues I see are it makes the initial start up a bit rich, I can smell it, and if I was involved in a crash the fuel pump would still run if the engine stalled as no inertia switch is fitted.
I changed the fuel pump relay for known good one but it is still the same, pump runs constantly with no priming step. Furthermore the fuel pump runs even with the fuel pump relay removed so it must have been wired independently of the ECU.
Removing the main relay prevents starting. The main and fuel pump relay wiring doesn't look by the book either.
I need to check that pin 12 (MR) and pin 16 (FPR) aren't earthing somewhere and that pin 19 is getting the ignition pulse via terminal 86 on the FPR.
If it isn't them it can only be a dodgy ECU or more likely a funky wiring setup. Time to get out the probe
This is the wiring scheme I'm working to (adapted from the Disco1 and RRC manuals):
Any bright ideas appreciated. I'll update as and when I sort it out.
My YouTube videos have gone so here's a link to them on IG: https://www.instagram.com/cappers90v8/
Sorting through some photos of the engine conversion and i found these which show the Disco loom that came with it.
The main and fuel pump relays are there plus another black relay which is wired into them. I assume it's not standard Disco1wiring but no ideas apart from it being a relay for a defunct immobiliser or something? It looks like they wired the lot in without altering the setup.
Curious.
The main and fuel pump relays are there plus another black relay which is wired into them. I assume it's not standard Disco1wiring but no ideas apart from it being a relay for a defunct immobiliser or something? It looks like they wired the lot in without altering the setup.
Curious.
SimonHobson
Extreme Landy Fan
They look like standard relays.
On top, one with big brown/orange wire is main power relay (EF6). Behind it with several white/something wires is fuel pump relay (EF8).
Underneath looks like the fan timer relay (EF18).
I have an article on how I hacked the loom when dropping the EFI setup in my 110 with LPG. I have a circuit diagram on that page.
The large 9 (?) pin white connector near the oil filler is the connector to main loom. The early EFI is great for this sort of transplant as it's a stand-alone system - just apply power and an ignition feed on that plug and it'll run
The white socket (with plug fitted) sat on top of the plenum chamber is the diagnostics port.
And there's an ugly hack there (the red crimps extending a connection for the coolant temperature sensor).
From memory, the round rubber connector behind the throttle body is completely separate to the EFI system - it has the engine stuff (alternator Ign & W wires, coil connections, oil pressure switch, etc).
On top, one with big brown/orange wire is main power relay (EF6). Behind it with several white/something wires is fuel pump relay (EF8).
Underneath looks like the fan timer relay (EF18).
I have an article on how I hacked the loom when dropping the EFI setup in my 110 with LPG. I have a circuit diagram on that page.
The large 9 (?) pin white connector near the oil filler is the connector to main loom. The early EFI is great for this sort of transplant as it's a stand-alone system - just apply power and an ignition feed on that plug and it'll run
The white socket (with plug fitted) sat on top of the plenum chamber is the diagnostics port.
And there's an ugly hack there (the red crimps extending a connection for the coolant temperature sensor).
From memory, the round rubber connector behind the throttle body is completely separate to the EFI system - it has the engine stuff (alternator Ign & W wires, coil connections, oil pressure switch, etc).
Thanks at @SimonHobson
Fan timer relay! That makes sense as its a disco lump. I don't have A/C so that circuit is redundant but still wired in. I should be able to suss what to do to get the fuel pump primed by the ecu and not wired directly.
I'll get around to it one day when it stops raining!
Great article; I remember reading it when I had an LPG V8.
Fan timer relay! That makes sense as its a disco lump. I don't have A/C so that circuit is redundant but still wired in. I should be able to suss what to do to get the fuel pump primed by the ecu and not wired directly.
I'll get around to it one day when it stops raining!
Great article; I remember reading it when I had an LPG V8.
SimonHobson
Extreme Landy Fan
With any luck ...
They'll have kept the white 9 pin connector and used the matching one salvaged from the main loom. If not, you might need to see what they did with the wire you need.
See the diagram and follow the white/purple wire from relay EF8, via the 9 pin connector, via fuse B8, inertia switch (EF9) to the fuel pump. You simply need to disconnect whatever is currently feeding your fuel pump and feed it from that wire - suitably fused.
Done that way, from memory the fuel pump will run for a few seconds at initial switch on then stop (so the system is filled and pressurised), then run all the time you are cranking and/or the engine is running (detected from ignition pulses on the white/black wire (IG5)). If the engine stops, the pump will stop a few seconds afterwards. This, together with the inertia switch, are safety features - the idea being that if you fight the laws of physics and lose, you don't end up in a broken heap with the fuel pump still running and pumping petrol all over the place just waiting for something to light it.
They'll have kept the white 9 pin connector and used the matching one salvaged from the main loom. If not, you might need to see what they did with the wire you need.
See the diagram and follow the white/purple wire from relay EF8, via the 9 pin connector, via fuse B8, inertia switch (EF9) to the fuel pump. You simply need to disconnect whatever is currently feeding your fuel pump and feed it from that wire - suitably fused.
Done that way, from memory the fuel pump will run for a few seconds at initial switch on then stop (so the system is filled and pressurised), then run all the time you are cranking and/or the engine is running (detected from ignition pulses on the white/black wire (IG5)). If the engine stops, the pump will stop a few seconds afterwards. This, together with the inertia switch, are safety features - the idea being that if you fight the laws of physics and lose, you don't end up in a broken heap with the fuel pump still running and pumping petrol all over the place just waiting for something to light it.