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Crank shaft snapping

K

Kphilip87

In Second Gear
Hi there wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction, I bought a 2015 range rover sport autobiography just over 3 month ago, and the crank has snapped and needing a new engine possibly.

warrantyhas ran out (only got 3 month) I’ve seen some people on here saying to take it Land Rover and they would sort it! But after speaking to them it’s going to cost me around £800 for them to look at it! And after that they would make decision, but only cover the bill upto 40%

car has only done 50k miles
 
Kphilip87 said:
Hi there wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction, I bought a 2015 range rover sport autobiography just over 3 month ago, and the crank has snapped and needing a new engine possibly.

warrantyhas ran out (only got 3 month) I’ve seen some people on here saying to take it Land Rover and they would sort it! But after speaking to them it’s going to cost me around £800 for them to look at it! And after that they would make decision, but only cover the bill upto 40%

car has only done 50k miles
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Comments on another thread suggest basically you'll get a quote to replace and LR will offer a % but the quote is so high that actually they're giving you bugger all so it'd actually work out cheaper just sorting it out yourself. Short engines are available for around 3K and factor in a couple of grand or so labour as it's a body off job. NWS near Whitchurch, Shropshire are worth a try to get an idea of a price.

The wierd thing is it's so hit and miss, I've seen TDV6 and SDV6 with huge mileages on them, then there's others which go bang after barely being run in. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I think if I was buying another I'd take the sump off and loctite the bearings in the caps to stop them spinning and eating the crank, which seems to be the commen cause from all the threads I've read.
 
Mike_Hammond said:
The wierd thing is it's so hit and miss, I've seen TDV6 and SDV6 with huge mileages on them, then there's others which go bang after barely being run in. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I think if I was buying another I'd take the sump off and loctite the bearings in the caps to stop them spinning and eating the crank, which seems to be the commen cause from all the threads I've read.
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It reminds me of a situation I had with my new Rover metro back in 1990, car was great but within just 3 months the rear wheel bearings failed, they were replaced free of charge, and the rover dealer actually showed me what had happened, the bearing surface inside had broken up so it became very rough... now your thinking, arh, Rover buying cheap parts, nope, these were good quality German parts, but an entire batch failed it turned out, affected 1000 cars in the end.... mine happened to fail about a month before Rover recalled all of them... So is it a failure of the bearing internally?

The other thing it might be, as when you said some last forever and others failed, is it as the bearings are made within a set tolerance, where at the Plus side, the bearings are a perfect fit and never move, and the ones made at the minus end fail fairly quickly, that would explain why they are not rushing out to do a recall... while the ones at the 0 size last the expected number of miles they have designed the engine to last....
 
But regardless you'd have thought after the first few they'd have reviewed and sorted whatever it was in ongoing production, even if they didn't admit it on any builds prior to finding an issue. But reports seem to keep coming? Why of why they don't just fit tangs on the bearings like they always used too I've no idea, just seems such a simple thing to fix if that's what it is?
 
I think there's more to this. I can see that the sheels could turn in the case and block the oil feed. What I don't see is why the crankes are breaking. Cranks do get run without oil and it makes a right mess, shells melt, mains and or big ends go oval, but it odd for cranks to break. Broken cranks are more about over tuning, poor manufacture or resonant/harmonic vibrations. I thinking it could be the harmonics and fatige failure becuase I'm not gettin ga feeling that JLR have found the problem. Also if it is a harmonic problem its quite fundamental to the engine design so even if they know what the problem is it may be cheaper to do nothing and let the production run out.
 
Check out Salvage Rebuilds UK on youtube, he did one a while back, bought a scrap S type jag for the engine ( very cheap and same engine ) and changed it all over, a lot of work but didn't actually cost him that much money. I wouldn't waste your time with JLR, I doubt they will help, especially if you didn't buy the car new from them and had it serviced ever since. To be fair I doubt very much the 3 month warranty you had would have covered this either, you could try the dealer you bought it from, and maybe trading standards, but it depends how long you've had it, good luck with it.
 
iandq said:
Check out Salvage Rebuilds UK on youtube, he did one a while back, bought a scrap S type jag for the engine ( very cheap and same engine ) and changed it all over, a lot of work but didn't actually cost him that much money. I wouldn't waste your time with JLR, I doubt they will help, especially if you didn't buy the car new from them and had it serviced ever since. To be fair I doubt very much the 3 month warranty you had would have covered this either, you could try the dealer you bought it from, and maybe trading standards, but it depends how long you've had it, good luck with it.

I only bought the car just over 3 month ago, it had just over 50k on the clock! I’ve (wife) have only done 1800 miles in it, due to the current situation we are in it’s not been getting used as mush as it normally would have.
Full landrover service history.

in regards to warranty, I’ve read a few times it’s not covered!
Going to speak to my finance company, see where I stand.
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There's loads on the web (as others have said). I did a bit of reading and some things came out:
Its been going a long time, posts go back at least 6 years.
The same engine does not break cranks when fitted in other vehicles, there is something about the LR set up.
The different applications have different service intervals without any explanation.
There are 2 main theories - shells rotating and harmonic resonance.
All most all of the breaks are near the front where the load is low (less cylinders) but the reasonace is high (nearer damper) so the reasonace theory looks a better bet.
Despite a lot of discussion no one seems to have got to the bottom of why some break and others do not.
While the individual cost is high - the car is useless, the % failure rate looks to be acceptable to JLR, and as the cars are now mostly sold used they can wash their hands of it.
There is agreement on getting the services done early, the JLR recommended interval is very high and any time over that is used to excuse them.
 
Given the above then, it seems that its not the fundamental design of the engine that is at fault.
So, how different are the same engines when used in other applications?
Are they assembled in different plants using parts from different manufacturers?
Slightly different designs of components in different applications (different dampers or cranks).
Or is(was) there some error at the assembly stage that wasnt noticed? some engine assembler who was doing something slightly wrong with the effect that 'his' engines were prone to failure..?

Bottom line is it shouldnt matter. The manufacturer ought to take responsibility.
 
mikeau said:
Given the above then, it seems that its not the fundamental design of the engine that is at fault.
So, how different are the same engines when used in other applications?
Are they assembled in different plants using parts from different manufacturers?
Slightly different designs of components in different applications (different dampers or cranks).
Or is(was) there some error at the assembly stage that wasnt noticed? some engine assembler who was doing something slightly wrong with the effect that 'his' engines were prone to failure..?

Bottom line is it shouldnt matter. The manufacturer ought to take responsibility.
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Size of vehicle, drive train loads maybe? Is the engine working at the edge of it's tolerances in the bigger 4x4s and has an easier life in the JLR saloons, Peugeots etc Are they tuning it in the LR's for more torque for example. It could be a number of variables combined but it still doesn't detract from the basic fact there is a commen problem with the LR units.
 
Some people have tried to get owner data and look for usage patterns but they didn't get anywhere. The Peugeot service is I beleive at 10k and the LR for 15k for the same engine but that's 2nd had info, be interesting to verify that. My understanding is that the crank dampers may not be the same and it really would beg some questions if the cranks don't break in the Jaguars. Someone pointed out that the crank is odd, it uses 2 large counterweights, one at each end, not equal size ones on all the webs. When the rail DMUs were haveing cranks snapping (flat 6 I believe) the most plausable theory was that the digital engine control could hold the engine at a resonant speed, the older hydraulic governor hunted around a set speed and let the engine run just off its resonant frequency. My hunch is that low slogging is worse and so the Peugeot and Jag applications may be revving more. Fully agree this is JLR responsibility and by now there should be one definative explanation and a reasonable value repair pack for vehicles out of warrenty. The problem is that manufacturers don't make money keeping used cars on the road, they make money selling new ones. Its not just JLR, MB is walking away from cars over 10 years old despite them being sold with a 25 year life. They are selling so many A class on lease plans they don't care. Few year ago I was in BMW's flag ship showroom in Berlin, very interesting, it was all about what % of your new BMW could be recycled, not how long it would last. The idea was you got a new one every 10 years and that was OK because 95% of the old one was recycled. Note there was nothing about residual values, just scrappage.
 
My 2015 Range Rover vogue at 39000 miles has just snapped it crank . Surely this should be a manufacturers problem ? It has full service history and basically for its age has done no real mileage
 
Sad to say that fits the pattern, ie there is no pattern. Check the independent in the thread above and get a basic price, then see what JLR say. My bet is the JLR price and discount is still more than the independent.
 
Mine went 3 weeks ago on a 2014 RRS AB with FLRSH and only 41K on it! LR want £13600 to replace including turbos and 2yr warranty. Indy are somewhere between 6500 to 1100 for refurbs and most only offering 6 months to a year or some only offering nearly new engines from scrappers with low mileage. With the exception of Ivor Searle who would take an engine and the remanufactuer it as new the price isnt far off the LR price ive been quoted but they offer 2 years too (but still need to get the engine in and out!)
Ive spoken to lots of agents on this and they have all been honest to a point sayign that the LR price isnt that bad considering its warranted. There are some really cheap ones but not sure on those could be fine and save a lot of cash or could be wasting it having to get it replaces in a year or paying a local to fix leaks etc...
It comes back to this is something LR know about and should cover at least 50% of the fee to get the car back running considering they do get in my case a low mileage engine back to refurb and resell and make more money on!

I understand a recall wouldnt be worth while but if the car is less than 10yrs old (even older it shouldnt matter as the problem isnt age related) or under 100K thn LR should cover at least 80% and the customer pays the difference as good will for getting a new engine.

LR dont really care so i just say its too old out of warranty and you didnt buy it from us so FO but they have a bad enough customer service rep you would think that out of pure embarassement they would want to keep even second hand owners happy as the vlaue of the cars also relies on the second hand market to get rid of the 3 yr olds ones and then pass them down!

Its disgusting really
 
I think there are some serious issues. Its not just JLR, some very pricey BWM engines and hybrids are failing. Top end cars are now very complex and its hard to see owners being able to fix them once out of warranty. Things like MB AMG 65s have super car level tech, are owners seriously going to pay for major repairs on cars that may have started out at £100k but 5 years on are selling for £20k? I think we will see a "dead zone" for top end cars between the warranty end and the £10k and under where you can write it off if it goes bang. I think the manufactures are already planning for this, MB lease deals do not allow you to keep the car, I'm assuming they scrap it at 5 years. I also think that they all plan to walk away from IC engines in Europe and so they have no interest in fixing them. My bet is soon if you take a large capacity car in with a failed engine you will be offered a voucher for money off a new electric car.
I've become a keen analyst of my son's school car park. We are in a wealthy area with a large Asian community. All Merc AMGs, and large SUVs with low profiles. Now these are being passed down to the wives for the school run, when a father tuns up they are in a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. I've no doubt there are tax benefits, but I recon every week a large SUV disappears and a Tesla or Taycan appears.
If I'm right about how fast things are changing (a big IF) my advice would be cut your losses, part it out and put the money towards an electric car before penal road tax rates knock the resale values right down.
 
robwlondon said:
I think there are some serious issues. Its not just JLR, some very pricey BWM engines and hybrids are failing. Top end cars are now very complex and its hard to see owners being able to fix them once out of warranty. Things like MB AMG 65s have super car level tech, are owners seriously going to pay for major repairs on cars that may have started out at £100k but 5 years on are selling for £20k? I think we will see a "dead zone" for top end cars between the warranty end and the £10k and under where you can write it off if it goes bang. I think the manufactures are already planning for this, MB lease deals do not allow you to keep the car, I'm assuming they scrap it at 5 years. I also think that they all plan to walk away from IC engines in Europe and so they have no interest in fixing them. My bet is soon if you take a large capacity car in with a failed engine you will be offered a voucher for money off a new electric car.
I've become a keen analyst of my son's school car park. We are in a wealthy area with a large Asian community. All Merc AMGs, and large SUVs with low profiles. Now these are being passed down to the wives for the school run, when a father tuns up they are in a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. I've no doubt there are tax benefits, but I recon every week a large SUV disappears and a Tesla or Taycan appears.
If I'm right about how fast things are changing (a big IF) my advice would be cut your losses, part it out and put the money towards an electric car before penal road tax rates knock the resale values right down.
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That’s very interesting.. And a lady who has a second home in our village has just chopped in her swanky new RR for a Tesla.. That’s a pretty dramatic change, but then how many people really honestly need a RR?
 
I won't single out RRs, its all the big SUVs. If we are on the cusp of a big change then things could change fast and that has a lot of implications. Last few years the trend in the (fee paying) school car park was bigger and bigger SUVs, first black but now that's associated with drugs and Albanians, white. But this recent swap to electric, and fast electric like the Porsche looks to have wrong footed the SUV brigade. SUVs are starting look like flares and platforms, seemed so on trend but then one day we all realized how silly we looked. (Yes I was there). If this does happen then SUV residual values will plummet. No need to worry about repairs, just pick the best, drive it till it falls apart, then go electric. I too have friends who are now getting Teslas, one did a 300 miles round trip over the weekend, £21 in "fuel" and its a very fast car.
 
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