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General De-rusting of parts. Rust removal methods.

Richie_asg1

Posting Guru
This is just a list of what I know and use, how it works an the effects you get.

First of all. Iron can form two types of oxide, red and black. Red rust is soft and "active" - will continue to rust if not treated, and black is more or less inactive if you can seal the water out. Better than this is no rust at all ! Red rust contains more oxygen than black rust.

Mechanical Removal
Always the first step is to remove as much as you can with a wire brush, grinder, flap wheel, hand brush, or a metal pan scourer works quite well. Emery cloth is usually the next step to get into awkward areas. If I had a grit blaster I would use that, but I don't, and neither do most people. :p

Reach for the Jenolite
- Is what most people do, but is moderately expensive. It was developed by the US Navy and is mostly Phosphoric Acid and hydrated silica to make a jelly paste. The acid reduces the iron(3)oxide to Iron(2)oxide, then to just iron, with the oxygen reacting to make water. The acid reacts with the surface of the steel to make Iron Phosphate - which is a very tough coating that is ideal to protect the steel. It is slightly darker than clean steel and has a glassy appearance.

Phosphoric Acid
This is what I use from a commercial suppliers in a 5L container, and is very thin, so tends to run off. To combat this I use strips of kitchen roll on top to form a type of poultice to keep the acid where I want it.
It is quite cheap. Several applications are usually needed to remove rust out of pits, and sanding helps between uses.

Citric Acid
This is the same citric acid used in cooking, and on fizzy sweets. It is edible and non-toxic. It is also an excellent derusting fluid for immersion. I make up a jar of it, and use it to remove rust from bolts after wire brushing.
It's not actually an acid per se, but removes oxygen by Chelation. The results is the same - no more rust. But if there is any zinc still left on the part it will leave the zinc intact.
The result after an hour or so is that the rust looks like it is still there, but has softened so that it can be wiped away, leaving clean metal underneath. Rinse with water, dry and spray with cold galvanising paint to restore your bolt to almost original condition.
It does have a bad habit of secondary flash rusting, and dulls quickly in air, so to combat this I dunk it in tea and wash it in that instead. o_O
Why Tea? - It is a very strong solution made by boiling old tea bags till it is a thickish liquid that is high in tannin. The Tannin combines with the steel to form a compound that prevents further rusting. This is the "Tan" in products like "Fertan" or "Vactan" that are sold commercially. For all I know maybe they are just citric acid and tea. :rofl:

Citric acid can be used on anything you can keep wet or immerse, is quite cheap and non toxic.

Electrolytic De-rusting
This is where you pass a small current through the component to remove the rust.
I use Washing Soda in hot water, about a tablespoon per bucket is enough.
Attach your component ( I almost said parts but could prove painful) to the NEGATIVE of a small 12v maintenance charger and place it in solution. Attach the POSITIVE to a scrap piece of steel (which can be rusty as long as the connection is good) and place that in solution to face the part being derusted. Think "Sacrificial Anode" and you will remember which way round it goes.
Bubbles rise at both parts, but your rust will disappear from the bit you want, as the anode steadily becomes more rusty!
What is happening is that hydrogen formed at the anode is combining with the oxygen in the rust - leaving just the iron behind, which is physically smaller. The result is clean parts covered with soft black iron and red rust that is not electrically 'stuck'. Both clean off easily. with a wire brush.

There is a small chance of "Hydrogen embrittlement" in high tensile steels, so should not be used for parts such as brake discs or calipers, or vanadium tools, but for most things is very very cheap and very effective.

It works better on items with some paint left, as the paint acts as an insulator for most of the good metal. Only the rusty metal is worked on.

Again flash rusting can be a problem once you take it out, so rinse with tea solution or a quick brush with phosphoric acid will prevent this.

Coatings

Next you need to protect your steel (when dry)
Cold galvanising spray is good for nuts and bolts or something needed quickly as it is a thin coating and dries fast.
Zinc Phosphate primer is I think the best as it fills the rusted areas and the adhesion bond is excellent for further top coats.
Hammerite style paints do work but I find they chip a bit too easily, but a good quick finish coating if sprayed on. I use a smooth black satin paint for a lot of parts.

Conversion primers
These are paints that say they can kill rust and prime in one. In my experience they only work when you have already converted the red rust to the more stable black oxide form. They seem to work by excluding moisture and therefore oxygen from the surface - therefore no more rust can form. Just don't paint them on red rust or you are wasting your time.
I have used them on large areas of chassis after I have removed as much as I can with mechanical methods then phosphoric acid, leaving just black oxide.
I am using Flag Primer at the moment which is black. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and the rust pokes through again.

Piccies to follow.
 
i would like to submit for the jury another option. the "chelating agent". which worked very well for me, for dipping. non corrosive, water based, and quite effective ! (example product evaporust)
 
Yes that may well be just citric acid as it behaves in the same way and goes slightly yellow too. Would be good to compare the two. There are other chemicals too - with more complicated names that do the same thing also.

I have also tried Oxalic acid - another chelating agent which is just as effective as citric acid - only it is toxic, so gets a bit of a thumbs down. Good for removing rust stains though.

Also on the cards is plain old spirit vinegar. It works, but is a bit slow, so no real benefit over the others unless you have a lot already. What I did find quite amazing is mixing spirit vinegar with the thick reduced tea tannin. To test I brushed it on a section of rusty exhaust, and as I did the rust was removed and a nice black finish resulted.
It was however short lived as the black dried powdery, and within a day or so outside it soon went rusty again. I think Fertan uses a water based acrylic varnish in it to bond the coating on after it has dried, but this also means that if it has not completely removed the rust when it dries - it fools you into thinking it has because it now looks nice and black! I think other rust eaters do this also if they dry black.

As I mentioned about all in one products - it is safer to do it individually and check in between.
 
Great post. I have just sprayed my car with lanolin spray. Not that it has much rust in it. One day I will get around to fixing the little bits of surface rust it does have. Lucky it lives in a nice dry garage I had built just after I bought it and doesn't get driven in the rain :)
 
Just picked up on this post-excellent, thank you!
Now this might be one of those Stupid Questions, but is there any disadvantage to painting a galvanised chassis (or anything else so treated) with one of these concoctions, or will they react adversely with the galvanised coating? I ask because some of my trailer chassis is showing signs of wear and needs something done. I don't want to attack it too fiercely with abrasives as this will erode the "good" galv while I try to remove the rusty bits, so painting it with some kind of treatment might be one way of controlling things; I just don't want to do it with a tiny brush.
 
On weak galvanising that is starting to rust you can use citric acid but not a conventional rust eater as it will just strip what galvanising you have left. Soft wire wheel and cold galvanising spray is probably a safer way to go.
Then any waxy based coating will keep the water off it.
 
You can buy citric acid as a powder from ebay or Amazon as it is used a lot in bath products as well as cooking.
Phosphoric acid is best bought from an industrial supplier of agricultural & tractor paints. Sometimes they concoct their own rust eaters and washes/ metal prep but plain old phosphoric acid is still usually in there somewhere.
 
Ok, the citric acid looks like a potential solution to one issue I have. I am going to make some rock sliders but the internal rust on the rear outriggers is preventing the tube from sliding into them. My idea is to put some citric acid into the tube by blanking off each end and filling it with the solution - will this work and how long should I leave it in?
 
Has any one tried molasses,it's no joke it worked for me.you can get big tubs of the stuff from horsey places.
That is a bit of a strange one but I know it works, just not how it works. As it takes time I would think it may be acetic acid produced when the molasses ferment producing alcohol, and acetobacter convert that to acetic acid - or vinegar. One may argue that buying the vinegar would be quicker. Or I could be completely wrong.
I've tried mixing white vinegar with strong tannin solution and brushing it on rusty exhaust. It removed the rust and left a dark black residue, but that quickly washed off and it went rusty again. If you added a water based varnish it could be a good product.

Save your molasses for making fly paper in the summer - it works well and you can compost the flies.
 
Well I ended up not trying the citric acid in the rear tubular outriggers (post 13) as I decided it would be a good idea to get as much rust off as possible to start with (using a rasp and twirly scraper thing I made). One side actually had holes in it, so I bit the bullet and replaced them.

However, this week for the first time I have used electrolysis and I must say I am impressed. I first did a wheel hub, then a swivel housing. Both had thick rust scale on them - they were very crusty! I brushed the surface crud off as I thought this may include remnants of oil etc, which I did not want to affect the process. I did an initial period of 10 hours then a wire brush to remove any loosened heavy flakes (lots come off), then a further 10 hours hub/15 hours swivel housing.

After electrolysis you end up with a "warts anorl " finish as loosing the thick crusty flakes of rust exposes the pitted surface of the material.
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The thick rust has gone and any remaining thick parts can be removed via a quick poke or scrape with a screwdriver.

I then wire brushed the bkack powder off - though I think a pressure washer would have been better/easier. Unfortunately I didn't take photos after brushing and I have now painted it with Bonda rust primer ,(I will add a photo later,).

This method of rust removal has impressed me. I do not believe I could of achieved this level of removal just using a wire brush in a grinder. I find the wire brush can just polish thick rust. Also the surfaces without rust do not get affected which is especially important when they are machined mating faces.

The process, for me, is still messy as removing the residue with a wire brush is dirty - this would have been different if I could have pressure washed the residue off.

The set-up was easy as I had all the items I needed to do it - though I could improve it. The kit I used included;
A strong deep bucket.
An old battery.
An Aldi battery charger.
Scrap steel for anodes
Wire to hang the parts and anodes from
Wire with crocodile clips.
Soda crystals (Home bargains @ 79p)

I intend to keep this set up so it can be my go-to rust removal method where it is suitable. Obviously the part must be loose and of a size that would fit in the tank.

I will post some photos of the painted housing later.

Mick
 
Well I ended up not trying the citric acid in the rear tubular outriggers (post 13) as I decided it would be a good idea to get as much rust off as possible to start with (using a rasp and twirly scraper thing I made). One side actually had holes in it, so I bit the bullet and replaced them.

However, this week for the first time I have used electrolysis and I must say I am impressed. I first did a wheel hub, then a swivel housing. Both had thick rust scale on them - they were very crusty! I brushed the surface crud off as I thought this may include remnants of oil etc, which I did not want to affect the process. I did an initial period of 10 hours then a wire brush to remove any loosened heavy flakes (lots come off), then a further 10 hours hub/15 hours swivel housing.

After electrolysis you end up with a "warts anorl " finish as loosing the thick crusty flakes of rust exposes the pitted surface of the material.
View attachment 277975View attachment 277976View attachment 277977View attachment 277978View attachment 277979View attachment 277980View attachment 277981
The thick rust has gone and any remaining thick parts can be removed via a quick poke or scrape with a screwdriver.

I then wire brushed the bkack powder off - though I think a pressure washer would have been better/easier. Unfortunately I didn't take photos after brushing and I have now painted it with Bonda rust primer ,(I will add a photo later,).

This method of rust removal has impressed me. I do not believe I could of achieved this level of removal just using a wire brush in a grinder. I find the wire brush can just polish thick rust. Also the surfaces without rust do not get affected which is especially important when they are machined mating faces.

The process, for me, is still messy as removing the residue with a wire brush is dirty - this would have been different if I could have pressure washed the residue off.

The set-up was easy as I had all the items I needed to do it - though I could improve it. The kit I used included;
A strong deep bucket.
An old battery.
An Aldi battery charger.
Scrap steel for anodes
Wire to hang the parts and anodes from
Wire with crocodile clips.
Soda crystals (Home bargains @ 79p)

I intend to keep this set up so it can be my go-to rust removal method where it is suitable. Obviously the part must be loose and of a size that would fit in the tank.

I will post some photos of the painted housing later.

Mick
Good write up thank you for posting .
 
The thick rust flakes are best chiselled off first with a needle gun or manually with hammer and chisel.
Hi Cliff, I would go for that but I don't have a needle gun and some of the thick stuff is not obvious to start with. When I took the part out after 10 hours the thick flakes came off quite easily where getting these off first would potentially save this time. The thick flakes are obvious as they are an orange rust colour where the rest is quite dark, so easy to identify.
 
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