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SIII gearbox overhaul
- Thread starter peaklander
- Start date
peaklander
Accelerating Away
In-spite of the advice about Britpart from Snagger, I don't feel that I have any choice except move on with the parts that I have bought - namely input, layshaft and 1/2 gears (Britpart) from LR Series. I did have a conversation with the guy there before buying these (Dominic) regarding genuine v other, and he strongly suggested a genuine 3/4 synchro clutch but said that non-genuine was ok for the rest.
After much partial assembly and comparisions between old and new parts on the mainshaft, I have finally re-assembled with the new 1st & 2nd gears, new synchro rings for 1/2 gears (genuine) and new 3/4 clutch (genuine). Used all genuine bearings throughout and checked end floats as per manual. The new input shaft was neeeded due to missing tooth and new layshaft due to hardening wearing (see earlier pics)
It has been amazing to look at the depth on the brass synchro rings, compared to the old ones and also at the wear on the dog teeth on 1st 2nd gears.
I have inserted the selectors and closed the top with new selector seals. Before doing so I checked selection - 1/2 is very easy (inspite of my problems documented earlier). The outer ring moved easily by hand. 3/4 is very tight but I think that's due to the force required to overcome the synchro spring pressures. Actually getting the dog teeth to fully enagage in 3rd is fairly difficult - I'm hoping that it's nothing more than the new splines in the clutch.
I have fitted the gearlever and selection is stiil a bit tight in 3/4 even with extra leverage. The stick itself is a bit wobbly - I have disassembled and cleaned and re-greased the big spring etc. The grubscrew to keep it oriented correctly is a bit loose so I have filled with loctite. There's a bit of movement at the bottom into the selectors which might need a new ring (not sure what it is) - but this could be changed later.
Now just checking the transfer box / front output shaft and hope to join all three bits together on Saturday. Then it's onto the rear oil seal (5brg) and sump gasket but work is going to get in the way again and progress will be slow (even more than it has been with all my fiddling and checking
)
After much partial assembly and comparisions between old and new parts on the mainshaft, I have finally re-assembled with the new 1st & 2nd gears, new synchro rings for 1/2 gears (genuine) and new 3/4 clutch (genuine). Used all genuine bearings throughout and checked end floats as per manual. The new input shaft was neeeded due to missing tooth and new layshaft due to hardening wearing (see earlier pics)
It has been amazing to look at the depth on the brass synchro rings, compared to the old ones and also at the wear on the dog teeth on 1st 2nd gears.
I have inserted the selectors and closed the top with new selector seals. Before doing so I checked selection - 1/2 is very easy (inspite of my problems documented earlier). The outer ring moved easily by hand. 3/4 is very tight but I think that's due to the force required to overcome the synchro spring pressures. Actually getting the dog teeth to fully enagage in 3rd is fairly difficult - I'm hoping that it's nothing more than the new splines in the clutch.
I have fitted the gearlever and selection is stiil a bit tight in 3/4 even with extra leverage. The stick itself is a bit wobbly - I have disassembled and cleaned and re-greased the big spring etc. The grubscrew to keep it oriented correctly is a bit loose so I have filled with loctite. There's a bit of movement at the bottom into the selectors which might need a new ring (not sure what it is) - but this could be changed later.
Now just checking the transfer box / front output shaft and hope to join all three bits together on Saturday. Then it's onto the rear oil seal (5brg) and sump gasket but work is going to get in the way again and progress will be slow (even more than it has been with all my fiddling and checking
)
Snagger
Posting Guru
Good luck with it.
The O ring at the bottom of the gear stick is just to prevent rattles. A 3mm section, 14mm diameter O ring will fit perfectly. I tried to find some polyurethane O rings, but nobody I tried had any. If you can source some, they'd be better than the standard neoprene rings used.
The grub screw has a stubbed conical end, and if the sides have been worn, it will be loose in the stick's pivot ball slot regardless of its security in the threads. A new screw will only cost a few pence, but will make gear selection much easier and more pleasant, and may reduce rattles. it's definitely worth replacing.
The O ring at the bottom of the gear stick is just to prevent rattles. A 3mm section, 14mm diameter O ring will fit perfectly. I tried to find some polyurethane O rings, but nobody I tried had any. If you can source some, they'd be better than the standard neoprene rings used.
The grub screw has a stubbed conical end, and if the sides have been worn, it will be loose in the stick's pivot ball slot regardless of its security in the threads. A new screw will only cost a few pence, but will make gear selection much easier and more pleasant, and may reduce rattles. it's definitely worth replacing.
peaklander
Accelerating Away
I may yet need that luck!! Ok on the ring and screw - yes I can get another grub screw alongside other stuff still to be ordered. Thanks for your advice through this thread - I hope that the next update will be when I get it connected to some rotation without the propshafts connected
mingdiesel
In Third Gear
Hi, Thanks for the informative post and comments, usefull to us other hamateurs, how is it going now?!
I've been reading your post with interest, particularly as I found this post half way through by which time I had already encountered some of the same problems.
Mines is an earlier S111 Suff A box removed because of jumping out of 2nd gear on over-run, after fitting overdrive found 3rd gear detents chewed up in oil, wondered why the main nut was a bit slack when I removed it to fit overdrive?
3rd Gear synchro splines were worn thin 2/rds way round on one side only however up till then only problem was jumping out of 2nd gear going steep downhill.
I ordered mostly genuine or OEM parts from LR Series but have had to return OEM 1st/2nd gear inner/outer member/synchro as one of the teeth was cracked when I took it out of the box,
ordered replacement LR Genuine part - shipped very quickly for LR Series, still waiting on refund for faulty returned OEM part tho.
I could not obtain correct 2nd/3rd gear tolerances with a new Bearmach 1 piece distance piece so have replacement for that coming from LRS, wondering if 1 piece bronze is better than 2 piece jobbies?
Must say I've been very disapponted with the quality of some parts and the delays this causes when I've set aside time to progress my gearbox rebuild.
It is difficult trying to balance the difference in cost between OEM & Genuine however I believe the quality should be same on both, different if you buy cheap replacement parts.
Question however is how do you know if it really is a genuine part when it does not arrive in Genuine Part Box because it's been part of bulk pack?
It would be nice to know where you can buy good quality OEM parts similar quality to Genuine LR but less ££.
How did your gearbox rebuild finnish up, it would be nice to hear your recommendations & advice as I'm still in middle of mine and I'm sure others will be too.
Mingdiesel
I've been reading your post with interest, particularly as I found this post half way through by which time I had already encountered some of the same problems.
Mines is an earlier S111 Suff A box removed because of jumping out of 2nd gear on over-run, after fitting overdrive found 3rd gear detents chewed up in oil, wondered why the main nut was a bit slack when I removed it to fit overdrive?
3rd Gear synchro splines were worn thin 2/rds way round on one side only however up till then only problem was jumping out of 2nd gear going steep downhill.
I ordered mostly genuine or OEM parts from LR Series but have had to return OEM 1st/2nd gear inner/outer member/synchro as one of the teeth was cracked when I took it out of the box,
ordered replacement LR Genuine part - shipped very quickly for LR Series, still waiting on refund for faulty returned OEM part tho.
I could not obtain correct 2nd/3rd gear tolerances with a new Bearmach 1 piece distance piece so have replacement for that coming from LRS, wondering if 1 piece bronze is better than 2 piece jobbies?
Must say I've been very disapponted with the quality of some parts and the delays this causes when I've set aside time to progress my gearbox rebuild.
It is difficult trying to balance the difference in cost between OEM & Genuine however I believe the quality should be same on both, different if you buy cheap replacement parts.
Question however is how do you know if it really is a genuine part when it does not arrive in Genuine Part Box because it's been part of bulk pack?
It would be nice to know where you can buy good quality OEM parts similar quality to Genuine LR but less ££.
How did your gearbox rebuild finnish up, it would be nice to hear your recommendations & advice as I'm still in middle of mine and I'm sure others will be too.
Mingdiesel
peaklander
Accelerating Away
Thanks for the post. i can't believe how long ago it was that I wrote that last update. There was another thread somewhere from earlier this year documenting my (pathetic) efforts to seat an oil seal correctly in the rear diff. flange!
The Landy was MOTed in March and since then I have done only very local journeys - probably not driven more than a few hundred miles and never very far. THe gearbox did have to come out again (bigger job with the seat-box and roof to contend with). The reason for this was that i got continual jumping out of reverse and I was convinced it was the reverse gear that I should have changed. Also I was getting stiff 3/4 gear change.
However the box didn't need to come out as the reverse problem was wear on the selector fork - Again showing my inexperience, I had not looked closely enough - it was worn down by about 2mm and therefore wasn't pushing the gear fully into mesh.
The stiff linkage I have put down to friction between the selector rods at the square bits where the gearstick locates. I just had to rotate one rod slightly, relative to its fork and all seemed OK.
The box seems to be easier now there are a few miles on it. There is still an issue though, which only seems to have manifest itself since the last box-out event. When I select 2nd I hear a gear crash if I move the stick too far - so it's not a crash on engagement but after that - as if I'm 'going too far". Does that make sense?
It's funny - I have kept the Landy in the garage for so many years during this slow but big re-build and my Wife's car was on the drive. This week I've relented due to the snow we've had and the Landy is in the weather on the drive and her car is now snug in the garage! I'm also just beginning to realise what it's like climbing into a cold cab, where there are some water leaks and no interior light and a very slow heater! It looks good though and attracts attention!
Good luck with yours. I'll post a picture now...
The Landy was MOTed in March and since then I have done only very local journeys - probably not driven more than a few hundred miles and never very far. THe gearbox did have to come out again (bigger job with the seat-box and roof to contend with). The reason for this was that i got continual jumping out of reverse and I was convinced it was the reverse gear that I should have changed. Also I was getting stiff 3/4 gear change.
However the box didn't need to come out as the reverse problem was wear on the selector fork - Again showing my inexperience, I had not looked closely enough - it was worn down by about 2mm and therefore wasn't pushing the gear fully into mesh.
The stiff linkage I have put down to friction between the selector rods at the square bits where the gearstick locates. I just had to rotate one rod slightly, relative to its fork and all seemed OK.
The box seems to be easier now there are a few miles on it. There is still an issue though, which only seems to have manifest itself since the last box-out event. When I select 2nd I hear a gear crash if I move the stick too far - so it's not a crash on engagement but after that - as if I'm 'going too far". Does that make sense?
It's funny - I have kept the Landy in the garage for so many years during this slow but big re-build and my Wife's car was on the drive. This week I've relented due to the snow we've had and the Landy is in the weather on the drive and her car is now snug in the garage! I'm also just beginning to realise what it's like climbing into a cold cab, where there are some water leaks and no interior light and a very slow heater! It looks good though and attracts attention!
Good luck with yours. I'll post a picture now...
alex
Big Landy Fan
Very nice. You just have to keep working away at it and improving .......it's the only way.
Ser 11 boxes can be even worse for parts.
Mingdiesel: The only parts you can get that are as good as original equipment are the quality bearings like NTK . As for other replacement parts on the box ,some are acceptable and lots of other bits below par. They are old box designs.
Ser 11 boxes can be even worse for parts.
Mingdiesel: The only parts you can get that are as good as original equipment are the quality bearings like NTK . As for other replacement parts on the box ,some are acceptable and lots of other bits below par. They are old box designs.