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Starts but no power

P

pjh1968

In Fourth Gear
Hi guys,
OK I'll try best best to explain this one 🙄

I broke down today 80 miles away from home thought I was covered with recovery back home but apparently not - that's another story.
Had this before a couple of times which I think is an air lock but this time it was bad so I had to be recovered.
Vehicle started ok but started to loose power particularly on acceleration, I solved this by stopping turning off turning back which seemed to reset everything, lasted about 1/4 mile same thing loosing power.
Tried purging the fuel pump helped but still the same thing, tried removing the maf sensor still the same thing.
Scanned the truck nothing come back.
Idle is good particularly after purging no whinning nnoises, had a full service last week.
I'm thinking start with new fuel filter housing then fuel pump - I can't work out if the fuel pump is healthy it's makes some strange noises.
What are you guys thinking?

Thanks
 
Guessing Td5.
Full service last week? and you suspect the fuel filter fitted was faulty...?
Id start with checking that parts that were replaced have been refitted properly and aren't leaky. Very easy to not tighten something fully.

Do you think the fuel has been purged enough after the service?
I seem to recall a thread on here not very long ago where someone had to purge the fuel a number of times before it ran properly...

No sign of oil in the CPU plug? can cause odd symptoms...
 
mikeau said:
Guessing Td5.
Full service last week? and you suspect the fuel filter fitted was faulty...?
Id start with checking that parts that were replaced have been refitted properly and aren't leaky. Very easy to not tighten something fully.

Do you think the fuel has been purged enough after the service?
I seem to recall a thread on here not very long ago where someone had to purge the fuel a number of times before it ran properly...

No sign of oil in the CPU plug? can cause odd symptoms...
Click to expand...
Yes I look at all the parts I fitted.

I must have purged the fuel system a dozen times by now.
I will check the courier plug as well.
Thanks
 
Im no Td5 expert. Perhaps someone will know how to test the pump..?

Meanwhile, have a read through previous threads;

www.lrukforums.com

Td5 Fuel Pump Troubleshooting

Mine is a Sept 2006 Defender County Double Cab We thought we had diesel waxing problems and have now replaced filter and it strated but would not rev ? Then it stopped and would not start again. Removing filter and turning on ignition no fuel ?? No noise from fuel pump, should there be ...
www.lrukforums.com www.lrukforums.com

www.lrukforums.com

TD5 - Dying Fuel Pump?????

Hi all, I need help / advice with my 2000 TD5 90. The car has a Tunit box on it and when it gets to about 70mph the car seems to judder, as though running out of diesel, after a while the juddering dies down and the car will proceed to 80mph+. I removed the Tunit and nothing seemed to be...
www.lrukforums.com www.lrukforums.com

www.lrukforums.com

td5 air in fuel system

Please help. New to this forum My disco seems to die due to fuel starvation after running for 10 mins and will not start unless you reprime the system. Its been at the garage now for 2 weeks had a new fuel pump fuel filter housing fuel pressure regulator and still no joy. There now appears to...
www.lrukforums.com www.lrukforums.com

www.lrukforums.com

Td5 noisy fuel pump

Hi am am new to this forum so hopefully i have posted this on the right page! I have a 2000 td5 defender, from owning it a year now it has had a noisy fuel pump (constant whining) it only seems to happen when she gets down to a three quarter tank, if i keep her full its ok! The noise i could...
www.lrukforums.com www.lrukforums.com

www.lrukforums.com

TD5 Poor Starting - Running Out of Options!

I have a 2001 TD5 Defender 90 with 120k on the clock. Up until quite recently it started on the button hot or cold. It then started to struggle from cold but ok when warm. Now it won't start without long periods of cranking hot or cold, if you leave it for any period of time. (That said, if it...
www.lrukforums.com www.lrukforums.com
 
Might not be any help - Once serviced my TD5 and forgot to remove the old fuel filter washer so the new filter went back with 2 washers under it - it sucked air till I worked out what I'd done...took ages to find it....
 
Update!!

OK I have found oil on the ecu, I've ordered a new injector loom which I will fit next week, a mechanic friend told me to remove the ecu place the ecu plugs facing down in a warm run the oil should seep out overnight.

He also said the power loss is not the ecu but crap in the fuel tank the pump sucking all the crap until it stops sucking up fuel, when left overnight the crap sinks to the bottom of the tank hence the sporadic starting issue.
That makes sense because it is running perfectly today.

I'm going to drop the tank and take look in the tank, I will probably put a new pump in regardless of condition. Any recommendations?

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
 
pjh1968 said:
Forgot to ask what's the best way to drain the diesel out of the tank and best way to clean out the tank?

Thanks
Click to expand...
when I dropped my tank I just siphoned as much as I could out before lowering it and just poured the last little bit out when the tank was out..
when out I removed the sender unit and washed the inside out with soap and water, the inside can be wiped out and dried through the sender unit opening...thats on a puma engined defender
 
pjh1968 said:
Update!!

OK I have found oil on the ecu, I've ordered a new injector loom which I will fit next week, a mechanic friend told me to remove the ecu place the ecu plugs facing down in a warm run the oil should seep out overnight.
Click to expand...
I think people have used brake cleaner to clean the oil out too...
pjh1968 said:
He also said the power loss is not the ecu but crap in the fuel tank the pump sucking all the crap until it stops sucking up fuel, when left overnight the crap sinks to the bottom of the tank hence the sporadic starting issue.
That makes sense because it is running perfectly today.
Click to expand...
That happens on earlier (tdi etc) tanks which have a single pipe pickup in the tank, but I thought the Td5 would be immune as doesnt the pump sit in a kind of cage so debris doesnt reach the intake? Ive not owned one or worked on one so maybe I assumed wrong!
pjh1968 said:
I'm going to drop the tank and take look in the tank, I will probably put a new pump in regardless of condition. Any recommendations?

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Progress anyway. Good luck!
 
pjh1968 said:
Update!!

OK I have found oil on the ecu, I've ordered a new injector loom which I will fit next week, a mechanic friend told me to remove the ecu place the ecu plugs facing down in a warm run the oil should seep out overnight.

He also said the power loss is not the ecu but crap in the fuel tank the pump sucking all the crap until it stops sucking up fuel, when left overnight the crap sinks to the bottom of the tank hence the sporadic starting issue.
That makes sense because it is running perfectly today.

I'm going to drop the tank and take look in the tank, I will probably put a new pump in regardless of condition. Any recommendations?

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I think your mechanic friend is talking rubbish incorrect. Oil in the ECM connector will interfere badly and cause problems exactly like you have experienced. clean it out by spraying with brake cleaner. The ECM itself usually does not allow oil to ingress so you'll probably be fine in that regard. As for "crap" in the fuel tank, again, not that likely. You might find stuff in there blocking the swirl pot filter if you have diesel bug, or you've had combustion gases leaking back through the system, but you'd have also had problems before now if the injector seals were worn and allowing this.

The obvious and most likely cause is actually a failed/failing fuel pump. It should be delivering HP fuel to the FPR at 4bar. The pressure can be measured by fitting a pressure gauge to the FPR in place of the temp sensor. A quick way to check the pump:

Multimeter set on mV: measure across fuse F10(30A) with engine running. If the HP is working you should get around 23mV reading (21mv or more) which means around 13A current draw. If it's only around 10mV (5A draw) the HP is dead

Fit a Valeo VDO fuel pump, not a cheap pattern part. [I keep making the mistake of confusing VDO and Valeo. VDO Siemens is the OEM Fuel pump].

Removing the pump, you'll be able to see into the tank and if there's anything floating about in it. You'll need to syphon it to empty it as there's no drain plug. You could use the pump if the LP is working and remove the LP line from the fuel filter and drain from that.
 
Last edited:
mikeau said:
I think people have used brake cleaner to clean the oil out too...

That happens on earlier (tdi etc) tanks which have a single pipe pickup in the tank, but I thought the Td5 would be immune as doesnt the pump sit in a kind of cage so debris doesnt reach the intake? Ive not owned one or worked on one so maybe I assumed wrong!

Progress anyway. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Cliff4WD said:
I think your mechanic friend is talking rubbish incorrect. Oil in the ECM connector will interfere badly and cause problems exactly like you have experienced. clean it out by spraying with brake cleaner. The ECM itself usually does not allow oil to ingress so you'll probably be fine in that regard. As for "crap" in the fuel tank, again, not that likely. You might find stuff in there blocking the swirl pot filter if you have diesel bug, or you've had combustion gases leaking back through the system, but you'd have also had problems before now if the injector seals were worn and allowing this.

The obvious and most likely cause is actually a failed/failing fuel pump. It should be delivering HP fuel to the FPR at 4bar. The pressure can be measured by fitting a pressure gauge to the FPR in place of the temp sensor. A quick way to check the pump:

Multimeter set on mV: measure across fuse F10(30A) with engine running. If the HP is working you should get around 23mV reading (21mv or more) which means around 13A current draw. If it's only around 10mV (5A draw) the HP is dead

Fit a Valeo VDO fuel pump, not a cheap pattern part. [I keep making the mistake of confusing VDO and Valeo. VDO Siemens is the OEM Fuel pump].

Removing the pump, you'll be able to see into the tank and if there's anything floating about in it. You'll need to syphon it to empty it as there's no drain plug. You could use the pump if the LP is working and remove the LP line from the fuel filter and drain from that.
Click to expand...
OK 🙄

I appreciate all feedback so thank you.

I've got the tank off today straight forward job I had no siezed bolts however I did have a problem with releasing one of those fuel line connectors.

After removing the pump it didn't look to bad but I think it may be one of those cheaper options?
I plan to spend the money for the best option, so yes I'm with you on a failing pump!

The proof will be in the pudding when I have everything back together.

Let's see and maybe I can say to you are
talking Rubbish 😀
 
OK gents,

I have most of the parts now, I've been busy at work and parts have been delayed.
I've got the new pump in now and I'm going to change the fuel filter housing the old one was damaged, I'm also going to change all the fuel pipes from the pump to the filter.

My questions are;
The brass fittings on the fuel housing should I torque them down using PTFE tape.

The new fuel pipes I've received seem not as good quality as the ones fitted, bought from LR centre paid quite a bit for them. Is this the case with the replacements?

Thanks
 
OK I can sign this one off now, New pump, new filter housing and new fuel pipes decided I do the lot and hopefully I won't have to do it for a few years!

The main issue was the fuel lines to the pump there is no slack to get them off, I'd advice to disconnect at the engine and filter to get a little more slack.

Purge it twice and it started on the button, pump alot quieter and it seems to be running alot better.

Thanks all
👍
 
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