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Swivel seal replacement cheat-My experience.

chardy

Overdrive!
I thought I would write a quick note on my experience of replacing my swivel seals using a cheat method.

Most of us who are hands on at repairing our own trucks where we can, will have considered or done a seal replacement on the steering swivel joint. I have done one pair in the past properly, wheel off, disconnect track/steering rods undo the notorious lock threaded bolts holding the hub on and drawing the whole lot off/out (heavy!!) and replacing the seal. It took me about 5 hours in total. Im not the fastest worker!

I had heard of just cutting a new seal so that you can replace it without removing the hub. I thought I would try it. I understand all the doubts about doing this so I am just writing of my fitting experience using this method.

After jacking up the truck and removing the wheel I had to clean down the joint prior to starting anything. Not as easy as it may sound. Removing the wire support spring and separating it at its joint was simple, as was cutting the new seal to fit it over the axel. However by the time you have got the seal over the axel it is badly twisted, there is little room there! Gluing the joint back together with impact adhesive (instant) was a fail, trying to keep everything clean was difficult, re fitting the spring was not particularly satisfactory and by the time i reseated the seal in its position in a hard to see if its clean, site, and coverd the glue joint in a little sealent, an hour had passed. I pretty much have relied on the metal seal cover to hold everything in place.

Needless to say I have just done one like this, hour and a half in time. The seal currently works but to get to the point of this note I really would not recommend this method, it is difficult, frustrating and for an extra half hour I could have actually done it properly and then hopefully only the once.
 
Whilst it is an unweildy lump, its often easier to undo the bolts that hold the swivel ball to the axle tube and pull the whole hub, then the seals can be replaced without cutting them. From memory, once the steering and brake caliper are disconnected this can be done fairly easily.
 
Whilst it is an unweildy lump, its often easier to undo the bolts that hold the swivel ball to the axle tube and pull the whole hub, then the seals can be replaced without cutting them. From memory, once the steering and brake caliper are disconnected this can be done fairly easily.

Ditto. a couple of spare headless 10mm bolts (or threaded bar) finger tight in the axle tube helps a lot with putting the unwieldy lump back on to the axle.
 
yes, I have done this as I mentioned and it is possibly the simplist way to correctly fit the seals, but I thought i would try the cheat method and see how I get on! As it is one of those subjects that comes up reasonably often I thought that as I had actually done it rather than just being someone that knows someone whos brother did it, it was worth putting my experience up to be read. Quick fix?-possibly, correct, long term fix?-no.
 
Ditto. a couple of spare headless 10mm bolts (or threaded bar) finger tight in the axle tube helps a lot with putting the unwieldy lump back on to the axle.

And when removing the 'lump', have the wheel laid down flat and drop the hub and now vertical stub axle back in it as a stable platform to clean and replace the seal. Easier than a work bench or lumps of wood!
 
And when removing the 'lump', have the wheel laid down flat and drop the hub and now vertical stub axle back in it as a stable platform to clean and replace the seal. Easier than a work bench or lumps of wood!

That's a clever tip, and not one I would have thought of. Thanks for actually doing it as it looks like it is easier to get it right if done properly after all.
Just those axle case bolts are a pig and usually need grinding off, adding to the "too much hassle" factor.

On the series I wonder if it is easier to remove the steering arm from the hub rather than take off the rod ends? :rolleyes:
 
yes, I have done this as I mentioned and it is possibly the simplist way to correctly fit the seals, but I thought i would try the cheat method and see how I get on! As it is one of those subjects that comes up reasonably often I thought that as I had actually done it rather than just being someone that knows someone whos brother did it, it was worth putting my experience up to be read. Quick fix?-possibly, correct, long term fix?-no.

if its any consolation the results from your cheat method are the reason i never even tried it in the first place. appreciate you making this post, even if it is to say "there, told you" with complete conviction

personally, i did it the long way, i.e stripping everything off from the drive member down to the axle tube. i am glad i did because i found lots of stuff that needed replacing, possibly just due to age or degradation on a similar interval to the seals themselves. half shaft support bearings, stub axle seals, warn stub axle seal lands, wheel bearings, loads of stuff i would've missed just pulling the entire swivel and half shaft off
 
That's a clever tip, and not one I would have thought of. Thanks for actually doing it as it looks like it is easier to get it right if done properly after all.
Just those axle case bolts are a pig and usually need grinding off, adding to the "too much hassle" factor.

On the series I wonder if it is easier to remove the steering arm from the hub rather than take off the rod ends? :rolleyes:

I cant take credit for the 'tip' it was passed to me by another!
 
I have used the cutting seal method quite successfully, I made sure the cut was to the top and used RTV sealant on the join, I use one shot in the swivels so it is less likely to leak. I know it's a short cut but I didn't have the time to deal with the axle bolts which would have needed to be cut.
 
i found the seals quite a snug fit into the rebate in the swivel housing (as youd expect) so without the retaining ring they were well in there.

cutting a slot essentially shortens the seal by the thicnkess of the blade itself, so you'd expect a weakness in sealing around all 360 degress ?
 
I cant take credit for the 'tip' it was passed to me by another!

It's what this place is good at. ;)

When I took my swivel housing off there was quite a bit of corrosion in the seal area that needed cleaning out too, and the snapped retainer bolts to sort out that would be difficult to sort out in-situ.

It is looking like a winter bodge rather than a proper job, but combined with one shot grease it may buy you a few months till you do it right.

Rather than twisting the seal badly it is not far off removing the top pin and the whole swivel housing coming off. then you are just left with the chrome ball - which is too big for the seal to fit over, but would be easier with a cut in the seal. This also allows you to clean up the swivel housing properly. But even then you are only 6 nuts away from doing it properly anyway. I think from your experience it is better to dive in and do it properly. Thanks for the review.:thumbsup:
 
i found the seals quite a snug fit into the rebate in the swivel housing (as youd expect) so without the retaining ring they were well in there.

cutting a slot essentially shortens the seal by the thicnkess of the blade itself, so you'd expect a weakness in sealing around all 360 degress ?

I think you have touched on the actual job of the seal here. It not only keeps the grease in (well mostly!) but is designed to keep dirt and water out. Worth bearing in mind, I actually ended up wiping a bead of silicone as best i could over the joint and the outer circumference of the seal. I know that the next seal change will also be a replacement of the chrome swivel as there is some roughness to the surface now even though my truck is 'only' 13 years old so next time it will be a full strip down and replace everything thats worn.
 
I also spoke to a land rover mechanic whom I trust completely and does all the work I cant do to my own truck. He claims that the main problem with the retaining bolts holding everything to the axle tube is that Land Rover are very heavy handed with thread lock on those bolts and that is the main reason it can make it such a pig of a job on occasion!
 
He claims that the main problem with the retaining bolts holding everything to the axle tube is that Land Rover are very heavy handed with thread lock on those bolts
I'll second that! I had to buy a new - monster -angle grinder to get my swivel ball off.
 
Ive never had a problem with the retaining bolts and I am liberal with the threadlock. Personally, I think that whilst threadlock stops the bolts coming undone, it also stops corrosion on the threads - that is the real killer when trying to undo the bolts. If you really think threadlock is an issue for getting those bolts undone, then heat to the bolt head should sort that out.
 
Ive never had a problem with the retaining bolts and I am liberal with the threadlock. Personally, I think that whilst threadlock stops the bolts coming undone, it also stops corrosion on the threads - that is the real killer when trying to undo the bolts. If you really think threadlock is an issue for getting those bolts undone, then heat to the bolt head should sort that out.
Good advice but only useful before you've rounded off the heads...:rolleyes:. I learnt the lesson too late.
 
I think you have touched on the actual job of the seal here. It not only keeps the grease in (well mostly!) but is designed to keep dirt and water out. Worth bearing in mind, I actually ended up wiping a bead of silicone as best i could over the joint and the outer circumference of the seal. I know that the next seal change will also be a replacement of the chrome swivel as there is some roughness to the surface now even though my truck is 'only' 13 years old so next time it will be a full strip down and replace everything thats worn.

same, blue hylomar in the angle of the seal "land"
 
A follow up to this thread I started; Now three and a half years on since i 'cheated' fitting these seals, the drivers side 'cv' joint has failed due to water ingress via the weakened seal. Admittedly I did some serious wading over a three month period last year due to heavy flooding where I live.
 
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