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2.5 n/a Engine swap to 200tdi or 300tdi Threads and opinions please

roverman65

roverman65

Trekker
Hi Folks,

I currently find myself wishing for more horsepower and better MPG from my military defender, I have read copious accounts of folks who have done both 200 nd 300tdi conversions, I have also looked at the Steve Parker conversion kits which would seem to save lots of beggaring about fabricating and welding stuff.

Having done a fair bit of surfing its seems I am best buying a whole disco and salvaging everything I can including the transfer box...is it true that I can bolt the Disco Transfer box onto the LT77 gearbox with little fuss to give it longer legs?

Cost wise, I am expecting to spend between £400 and £800 for a Disco, then another £700 for the conversion kit and perhaps £200 giving the engine an overhaul and clutch...am I missing any costs here? Seems an awful lot to fork out...maybe I should just go and buy another converted military Defender?

I would appreciate your thoughts and experiences, and also comments from folks who have decided to stay with the 2.5 N/A
 
The 2.5 is no race horse, that is for sure but it is a sturdy lump and quite a slogger. In terms of replacing it, AFAIK the 200 uses the same engine mounting feet, but, and here's the rub, the youngest 200 is now 25 years old. There were Defender 200 vehicles as well which would save you loads of money on the conversion, but they are probably quite thin on the ground and ridiculously expensive. Installing a 300 is far more involved, a friend recently converted his 200 to 300 had the job done by Steve Parker and the bill was north of 4,000 despite that cost there were some very dubious looking lash ups and they managed to wreck the new radiator he sourced for them, necessitating him having to replace it at his own cost.
There is no reason why a Discovery transfer box shouldn't fit, I had such an item in my 110 for a while, but I found it made the truck (csw) just a little bit over geared so I went back to the defender box and despite the V8 always feeling like it needs another gear (it's got a Tdi ratio main box) the fuel economy :lol: has improved.
 
Neil said:
The 2.5 is no race horse, that is for sure but it is a sturdy lump and quite a slogger. In terms of replacing it, AFAIK the 200 uses the same engine mounting feet, but, and here's the rub, the youngest 200 is now 25 years old. There were Defender 200 vehicles as well which would save you loads of money on the conversion, but they are probably quite thin on the ground and ridiculously expensive. Installing a 300 is far more involved, a friend recently converted his 200 to 300 had the job done by Steve Parker and the bill was north of 4,000 despite that cost there were some very dubious looking lash ups and they managed to wreck the new radiator he sourced for them, necessitating him having to replace it at his own cost.
There is no reason why a Discovery transfer box shouldn't fit, I had such an item in my 110 for a while, but I found it made the truck (csw) just a little bit over geared so I went back to the defender box and despite the V8 always feeling like it needs another gear (it's got a Tdi ratio main box) the fuel economy :lol: has improved.
Click to expand...
All food for thought, especially the bit about the engine being 25 years old...last thing I want to find is that it needs a full rebuild before being dropped in. I have seen a few Rover V8 engines on ebay, one has the LT77 adaptor plate with it...cheaper than a Tdi engine too. I haven't had chance to work out the MPG exactly but its somewhat thirstier than my Citroen Campervan LOL. I have also toyed with the idea of simply getting the best out of this engine by stipping and porting the head and popping new injectors in to see if it lifts its skirt a little bit.

A good friend of mine warned me that we all eventually sink more cash into them than they are worth...I haven't yet, but if I go ahead with the engine conversion then I will have spent more than its worth. Its no oil painting, lots of knocks and bruises but that is part of its charm. I will probably go ahead and buy a disco ready, but most of them have been to the moon and back.
 
I have had the same thoughts but can't really justify the cost on mine, when I did the head gasket I cleaned up all the ports and the exhaust manifold, not changed the injectors but if they were dodgy I would expect black smoke etc. but it runs fine, just steady.
I screwed in the screw on the pump a little bit which helped but it's never going to be a GTI.
I think if you are going to change the engine you would want to recon it to some degree anyway.
 
Kevm said:
I have had the same thoughts but can't really justify the cost on mine, when I did the head gasket I cleaned up all the ports and the exhaust manifold, not changed the injectors but if they were dodgy I would expect black smoke etc. but it runs fine, just steady.
I screwed in the screw on the pump a little bit which helped but it's never going to be a GTI.
I think if you are going to change the engine you would want to recon it to some degree anyway.
Click to expand...
did you get any improvement after doing the head ? I am not expecting miracles, but I have refurbed many heads over the years and had some surprising results. Not sure what you mean about the screw in the pump...is this the equivalent of a mixture screw on a carb?
 
I don't know how much effect my porting had as the head gasket was gone so just changing that made a decent difference, I always clean up heads when I have them in bits anyway as it just seems logical to clean off all the lumpy bits and smooth them out.
Do a search of defender 2.5na tuning and you will find the piece about the pump screw.
I wound mine in a couple of turns but didn't want to make it smoky.
I have done about as much as I can on mine and it is still slow, but really when you are used to modern turbo diesels that will punch out of roundabouts in third gear then a diesel without turbo is steady ⌚
 
My old 110 is still running the 2.5 NA. It's dog slow, and whenever I'm towing (which is quite often) I tell myself I need to drop in a TDI. There's a hill near me on a dual carriageway where I am down at 30 mph when towing with the NA. Not fun when the artics are scooting past at almost double my speed!

Thing is, when I'm not towing and just pootling around, I actually really like the 'feel' of the NA. They are quieter than a TDI, more rev happy, and the power (lol) delivery is much smoother.

There's a 200 and a 300 lying around spare, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'll change my mind again next time I'm towing though :D
 
roverman65 said:
All food for thought, especially the bit about the engine being 25 years old...last thing I want to find is that it needs a full rebuild before being dropped in. I have seen a few Rover V8 engines on ebay, one has the LT77 adaptor plate with it...cheaper than a Tdi engine too. I have also toyed with the idea of simply getting the best out of this engine by stipping and porting the head and popping new injectors in to see if it lifts its skirt a little bit.
Click to expand...
Turner engineering do gas flowed heads for the NA diesels, had one on my 2 1/4 swine years ago and its seemed to pull better In the mid range.
If you are after better economy a V8 is not the way to go. If I drive like a saint I can get just shy of 20MPG if I come over all testosterone rich i can get its consumption down to 8 or so.
You don't need a conVersion plate, just change bell housing and input shaft, oh and make sure you get the LT 77S. The other thing about installing a V8 is the engine mounting brackets on the chassis are in a different place.
Back when I were nobbut a lad I drove a 110 same as yours back from Germany, the back of it was full of beer, the stuff which should have been in the back was split between the full length roof rack and the over loaded Sankey trailer. Whilst it took its own sweet time accelerating up to cruising speed, it was happy to do that speed all day, apart from the long uphill bits. Oh and my chest muscles ached from twirling the steering wheel round many small roundabouts at low speed.
 
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konads said:
My old 110 is still running the 2.5 NA. It's dog slow, and whenever I'm towing (which is quite often) I tell myself I need to drop in a TDI. There's a hill near me on a dual carriageway where I am down at 30 mph when towing with the NA. Not fun when the artics are scooting past at almost double my speed!

Thing is, when I'm not towing and just pootling around, I actually really like the 'feel' of the NA. They are quieter than a TDI, more rev happy, and the power (lol) delivery is much smoother.

There's a 200 and a 300 lying around spare, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'll change my mind again next time I'm towing though :D
Click to expand...
Yes, I must admit when you are not in a hurry and when there isn't a truck right up your backside then its quite a pleasant drive..ps..I could give one of your Tdi engines a good home :)
 
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Neil said:
Turner engineering do gas flowed heads for the NA diesels, had one on my 2 1/4 swine years ago and its seemed to pull better In the mid range.
If you are after better economy a V8 is not the way to go. If I drive like a saint I can get just shy of 20MPG if I come over all testosterone rich i can get its consumption down to 8 or so.
You don't need a conVersion plate, just change bell housing and input shaft, oh and make sure you get the LT 77S. The other thing about installing a V8 is the engine mounting brackets on the chassis are in a different place.
Back when I were nobbut a lad I drove a 110 same as yours back from Germany, the back of it was full of beer, the stuff which should have been in the back was split between the full length roof rack and the over loaded Sankey trailer. Whilst it took its own sweet time accelerating up to cruising speed, it was happy to do that speed all day, apart from the long uphill bits. Oh and my chest muscles ached from twirling the steering wheel round many small roundabouts at low speed.
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I have always loved the burble and pop of the Rover V8...I have worked on many over the years but never been lucky enough to own one. Its a pipe dream really, for everyday use then the tdi would have to be the way to go I think. Love the story about your trip back from Germany...are you in any of the ex military vehicle clubs?...stories like that appear in the club mag every month.
 
roverman65 said:
I could give one of your Tdi engines a good home :)
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Sorry, I'll find a use for them one day!

On another note, it so happens I had the 110 on a weighbridge a few times today.

110+unladen trailer = 3000 kg. If we're generous and assume it still has 75% of its originally-claimed 68 bhp, that's roughly 17 bhp/tonne. No wonder it's slow!

Progress when loaded at 5.4 tonnes was, err, sedate...

32440881718_a52ac1e93d_b.jpg
 
konads said:
My old 110 is still running the 2.5 NA. It's dog slow, and whenever I'm towing (which is quite often) I tell myself I need to drop in a TDI. There's a hill near me on a dual carriageway where I am down at 30 mph when towing with the NA. Not fun when the artics are scooting past at almost double my speed!

Thing is, when I'm not towing and just pootling around, I actually really like the 'feel' of the NA. They are quieter than a TDI, more rev happy, and the power (lol) delivery is much smoother.

There's a 200 and a 300 lying around spare, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'll change my mind again next time I'm towing though :D
Click to expand...

Incidentally, I have managed to extract a little more power by adjusting the throttle linkage which had half and inch free play at the pump...it hasn't made a huge difference but at least something happens as soon as I press the peddle now. Going to google this pump feed screw mentioned above too...see what good that does.
 
roverman65 said:
Wow that's more expensive than I thought !...wonder if I can knock up something from some wood and nails. I am looking for a trailer but something Military looking.
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I'm pretty sure it was <£100 when I bought it. They seem to be out of production now so maybe those who have stock are cashing in...

If you still have the NATO hitch, a sankey would be the obvious choice if you don't need a really big trailer.
 
roverman65 said:
Hi Folks,

I currently find myself wishing for more horsepower and better MPG from my military defender, I have read copious accounts of folks who have done both 200 nd 300tdi conversions, I have also looked at the Steve Parker conversion kits which would seem to save lots of beggaring about fabricating and welding stuff.

Having done a fair bit of surfing its seems I am best buying a whole disco and salvaging everything I can including the transfer box...is it true that I can bolt the Disco Transfer box onto the LT77 gearbox with little fuss to give it longer legs?

Cost wise, I am expecting to spend between £400 and £800 for a Disco, then another £700 for the conversion kit and perhaps £200 giving the engine an overhaul and clutch...am I missing any costs here? Seems an awful lot to fork out...maybe I should just go and buy another converted military Defender?

I would appreciate your thoughts and experiences, and also comments from folks who have decided to stay with the 2.5 N/A
Click to expand...



I have a Disco 200tdi in my LHD MOD 110. It uses the same engine mountings and I don't have a Steve Parker kit. I have a 300tdi maniflold and turbo fitted by just turning it 180 degrees to make room for the turbo hoses and exhaust down pipe I have a boost pin fitted which was a night and day change. As well as being my daily driver I work mine off road throughout the year in the way of bringing wood in from a local forest and the extra power when fully laden with a Sankey is super.

A fabricated down pipe is all thats needed and the Steve Parker four bolt kit for the lower bell housing. I would advise to get a normal Defender civilian transfer box as the MOD is very short.


If you want pictures by all means just ask.

All the best

:)


.
 
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Gas Gas Ohlins said:
I have a Disco 200tdi in my LHD MOD 110. It uses the same engine mountings and I don't have a Steve Parker kit. I have a 300tdi maniflold and turbo fitted by just turning it 180 degrees to make room for the turbo hoses and exhaust down pipe I have a boost pin fitted which was a night and day change. As well as being my daily driver I work mine off road throughout the year in the way of bringing wood in from a local forest and the extra power when fully laden with a Sankey is super.

A fabricated down pipe is all thats needed and the Steve Parker four bolt kit for the lower bell housing. I would advise to get a normal Defender civilian transfer box as the MOD is very short.


If you want pictures by all means just ask.

All the best

:)


.
Click to expand...
A few photos of the engine bay would be great, my main worries were the oil cooler pipes, exhaust down pipe and rad hoses...the other stuff I think I can sort. Never heard of anyone doing the turbo swap though, what advantage is there to doing this? I've heard of the boost pin, but what is it and where does it go?
 
Good afternoon....

Boost fuel pin gives more power and takes about five minutes to install. It's the fuel pin on the top of the fuel injection pump and it is a different shape than standard. Remove four screws....unbolt the existing fuel pin (10mm spanner ) and mount the new one...screw back on et voila. A stainless pin won't pick up any goofy rust from water in fuel.

The oil cooler pipes...I will get hydraulic hoses made up at the start of next year from an agricultural workshop. They're normal soldered copper pipe at present, hashed to make it all work (which it does )

The advantage of the 300tdi manifold and turbo is that you don't have to go the route of the Steve Parker cost and work....where you dismantle the turbo from memory? and buy the twisty exhaust. For all the price of a down pipe you can cut and weld and if you make an error they're cheap to buy another one :)

The radiator/intercooler hoses are a mix and match affair to get to the turbo but work just fine. I could spend a bit more thought on this aspect later also.


I'll dig out some pics....



All the best

:)


.
 
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