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Electronic ignition

To be honest I didn’t find a timing gun much use. To set my timing I turned the engine over with the starting handle until the rotor arm was pointing at the pickup for No1 ht lead and plug, then checked the timing marks on the bottom pulley. If the timing marks are about right against the marker I put the distributor cap back on (keep the other plug leads disconnected) put a spark plug in No1ht lead and use a jump lead to earth the spark plug. This means you can put the spark plug where you can see it as you turn the engine by hand. Switch on the ignition. Aim to get a spark as you come on to your timing marks on the pulley (the green book will tell you cos I can’t remember)
That should be close enough to get it running. Fine tune by gently turning the distributor to get smooth running. Test drive, check for pinking , particularly under load usually uphill. If it pinks (valve bounce) turn the distributor a little until it stops pinking. Then it’s just a matter of checking your mixture strength on the carb, should it be needed.
Hope that helps😁
 
Guitar Mick said:
To be honest I didn’t find a timing gun much use. To set my timing I turned the engine over with the starting handle until the rotor arm was pointing at the pickup for No1 ht lead and plug, then checked the timing marks on the bottom pulley. If the timing marks are about right against the marker I put the distributor cap back on (keep the other plug leads disconnected) put a spark plug in No1ht lead and use a jump lead to earth the spark plug. This means you can put the spark plug where you can see it as you turn the engine by hand. Switch on the ignition. Aim to get a spark as you come on to your timing marks on the pulley (the green book will tell you cos I can’t remember)
That should be close enough to get it running. Fine tune by gently turning the distributor to get smooth running. Test drive, check for pinking , particularly under load usually uphill. If it pinks (valve bounce) turn the distributor a little until it stops pinking. Then it’s just a matter of checking your mixture strength on the carb, should it be needed.
Hope that helps😁
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike, that sounds a useful way of doing things. I think from the book with 90+ octane fuel the timing should be 6 degrees BTDC or equivalent to the first timing mark on the bottom pulley. I will do the tappets and then give it a go, in fact I can probably set it roughly while turning the engine over doing valve clearances and kill two birds with one stone. :)
 
You can static time with a bulb on the output side of the points feeding the coil. Set the timing marks on the crank with no1 on the compression stroke, then turn the dizzy till the bulb just lights up and you're done.
 
Steve, Ask Martin the proper timing for the distributor he builds you. I'm not sure if he does what I do, but I recurve every distributor for much better performance. This means you'll run upwards of 14-18 BTDC at idle, set with a timing light with the vacuum line disconnected. You either need to use a dial-back timing light or extrapolate out where 20 BTDC is on your pulley by extending new marks, using the marks you already have.

Not using a timing light is asking for terrible performance. Period. Vacuum gauges are for vacuum, not timing. Guessing is for people who just don't care. Here's a page from my website about setting timing where you don't even need a timing light to get it correct every time. Its the only accurate way I've ever found:

Installing a distributor in a disturbed (rebuilt) engine:

This may require an extra set of hands or a compression gauge. Turn the engine over from the crank bolt, with either a finger over the #1 spark plug hole, or with a compression gauge in the hole, until you see or feel the compression build in the cylinder. Since its a 4-stroke motor, the exhaust stroke will come up to TDC and build no compression, while the firing stroke comes up to TDC and DOES build compression. When you know you are on the compression stroke, turn the engine CW until you get to your timing setting, such as 15 degrees BTDC, and stop there. Do not back up to get there, turn the engine 2 more full revolutions to get back to that spot, always turning CW as you look at the front of the engine.

At this point, put a spark plug in the #1 plug wire, or use a clamp-style spark tester in the wire, and properly ground it to the engine. Make sure the distributor is properly installed with the rotor pointing roughly to the #1 spark plug wire terminal. Correct as needed. Loosen the distributor clamp enough so you can turn the distributor, and grab some welding gloves. Turn on the ignition key. Turn the distributor housing the opposite direction the shaft rotates (clockwise in this case), wearing the gloves or you could get shocked. You should see a spark at the plug. Turn it back past the starting point, and quickly repeat. You should be able to pinpoint the moment/position when spark happens at the plug. Turn off the ignition, and lock down the distributor clamp. Reinstall your #1 spark plug. If you have fuel present, the engine should start and run at the proper timing setting. Recheck with a timing light to confirm its set as you intended, but it should be perfect. This will work for points or most electronic ignitions, with the exception of some HEI-type systems that require a faster shaft rpm to develop a signal. This works beautifully on virtually all collector cars built before 1975.
 
distributorguy said:
Steve, Ask Martin the proper timing for the distributor he builds you. I'm not sure if he does what I do, but I recurve every distributor for much better performance. This means you'll run upwards of 14-18 BTDC at idle, set with a timing light with the vacuum line disconnected. You either need to use a dial-back timing light or extrapolate out where 20 BTDC is on your pulley by extending new marks, using the marks you already have.

Not using a timing light is asking for terrible performance. Period. Vacuum gauges are for vacuum, not timing. Guessing is for people who just don't care. Here's a page from my website about setting timing where you don't even need a timing light to get it correct every time. Its the only accurate way I've ever found:

Installing a distributor in a disturbed (rebuilt) engine:

This may require an extra set of hands or a compression gauge. Turn the engine over from the crank bolt, with either a finger over the #1 spark plug hole, or with a compression gauge in the hole, until you see or feel the compression build in the cylinder. Since its a 4-stroke motor, the exhaust stroke will come up to TDC and build no compression, while the firing stroke comes up to TDC and DOES build compression. When you know you are on the compression stroke, turn the engine CW until you get to your timing setting, such as 15 degrees BTDC, and stop there. Do not back up to get there, turn the engine 2 more full revolutions to get back to that spot, always turning CW as you look at the front of the engine.

At this point, put a spark plug in the #1 plug wire, or use a clamp-style spark tester in the wire, and properly ground it to the engine. Make sure the distributor is properly installed with the rotor pointing roughly to the #1 spark plug wire terminal. Correct as needed. Loosen the distributor clamp enough so you can turn the distributor, and grab some welding gloves. Turn on the ignition key. Turn the distributor housing the opposite direction the shaft rotates (clockwise in this case), wearing the gloves or you could get shocked. You should see a spark at the plug. Turn it back past the starting point, and quickly repeat. You should be able to pinpoint the moment/position when spark happens at the plug. Turn off the ignition, and lock down the distributor clamp. Reinstall your #1 spark plug. If you have fuel present, the engine should start and run at the proper timing setting. Recheck with a timing light to confirm its set as you intended, but it should be perfect. This will work for points or most electronic ignitions, with the exception of some HEI-type systems that require a faster shaft rpm to develop a signal. This works beautifully on virtually all collector cars built before 1975.
Click to expand...
Thats no different to using a 12v bulb on the coil feed, you get the same result.
 
distributorguy said:
Steve, Ask Martin the proper timing for the distributor he builds you. I'm not sure if he does what I do, but I recurve every distributor for much better performance. This means you'll run upwards of 14-18 BTDC at idle, set with a timing light with the vacuum line disconnected. You either need to use a dial-back timing light or extrapolate out where 20 BTDC is on your pulley by extending new marks, using the marks you already have.

Not using a timing light is asking for terrible performance. Period. Vacuum gauges are for vacuum, not timing. Guessing is for people who just don't care. Here's a page from my website about setting timing where you don't even need a timing light to get it correct every time. Its the only accurate way I've ever found:

Installing a distributor in a disturbed (rebuilt) engine:

This may require an extra set of hands or a compression gauge. Turn the engine over from the crank bolt, with either a finger over the #1 spark plug hole, or with a compression gauge in the hole, until you see or feel the compression build in the cylinder. Since its a 4-stroke motor, the exhaust stroke will come up to TDC and build no compression, while the firing stroke comes up to TDC and DOES build compression. When you know you are on the compression stroke, turn the engine CW until you get to your timing setting, such as 15 degrees BTDC, and stop there. Do not back up to get there, turn the engine 2 more full revolutions to get back to that spot, always turning CW as you look at the front of the engine.

At this point, put a spark plug in the #1 plug wire, or use a clamp-style spark tester in the wire, and properly ground it to the engine. Make sure the distributor is properly installed with the rotor pointing roughly to the #1 spark plug wire terminal. Correct as needed. Loosen the distributor clamp enough so you can turn the distributor, and grab some welding gloves. Turn on the ignition key. Turn the distributor housing the opposite direction the shaft rotates (clockwise in this case), wearing the gloves or you could get shocked. You should see a spark at the plug. Turn it back past the starting point, and quickly repeat. You should be able to pinpoint the moment/position when spark happens at the plug. Turn off the ignition, and lock down the distributor clamp. Reinstall your #1 spark plug. If you have fuel present, the engine should start and run at the proper timing setting. Recheck with a timing light to confirm its set as you intended, but it should be perfect. This will work for points or most electronic ignitions, with the exception of some HEI-type systems that require a faster shaft rpm to develop a signal. This works beautifully on virtually all collector cars built before 1975.
Click to expand...
I rest my case😁
 
steveseries72 said:
Finally a big thanks to all on here. The straightforward unbiased advice and information this forum generates is fantastic, a credit to all those involved which goes a long way to keeping these old LR's on the road and roadworthy! :)
Click to expand...

in this revisit of pros and cons. i wish we had covered the bit about the standard ignition curve, which is insane above 3000rpm (nudging 42 crank degrees at peak bhp, when it needs to be mid to high 20s)
 
Mike_Hammond said:
Thats no different to using a 12v bulb on the coil feed, you get the same result.
Click to expand...
I spent a couple of hours yesterday afternoon getting to the point where I could set the timing. The PO has run this for a number of years doing basic maintenance, ie oil changes etc but jobs that were in the ‘too hard’ category at the old boys age were left. The air filter was clogged beyond belief, mixture was way too rich partly as a result of the filter and valve clearances were miles out. Two of the tappets I ran out of feeler gauges to measure (set 60 thou+), three others were over 35 thou and the remainder all over 20. I elected to have the distributor rebuilt mostly because the original was very worn with lateral play in the shaft and had evidence of grit and sawdust in the base, in short the poor old girl ran so poorly she didn’t have enough power to drag a drunk off yer granny.
Timing was set by using Mike’s suggested method of a 12v bulb on the coil feed which is a fair way in advance of TDC (which according to the book is the timing for standard) but my rationale was that the points start to break way before that point as the distributor cam rotates several degrees in advance of being fully open.
She started on the button afterwards, was a heck of a lot quieter without the top end rattle as well as the new exhaust fitted some months back. The throttle response is in a different league, much crisper and pick up improved immeasurably. I will check with Martin about the timing but am sure it is running in excess of 8 deg at idle. It really needs a proper run but I am a little reluctant until I’ve been through the rest of the fluids now, oil & filter change, gearbox & transfer which is probably a bit belt and braces but the leaks are considerable underneath and knowing the PO‘s approach to some of the jobs I think drain plug washers have not been renewed at oil change. As I cannot be sure how full fluids are I would feel better knowing everything has been done properly before venturing out.
It has been a worthwhile exercise and generated some great discussion. Onwards and upwards with the other jobs 😊
 
steveseries72 said:
I spent a couple of hours yesterday afternoon getting to the point where I could set the timing. The PO has run this for a number of years doing basic maintenance, ie oil changes etc but jobs that were in the ‘too hard’ category at the old boys age were left. The air filter was clogged beyond belief, mixture was way too rich partly as a result of the filter and valve clearances were miles out. Two of the tappets I ran out of feeler gauges to measure (set 60 thou+), three others were over 35 thou and the remainder all over 20. I elected to have the distributor rebuilt mostly because the original was very worn with lateral play in the shaft and had evidence of grit and sawdust in the base, in short the poor old girl ran so poorly she didn’t have enough power to drag a drunk off yer granny.
Timing was set by using Mike’s suggested method of a 12v bulb on the coil feed which is a fair way in advance of TDC (which according to the book is the timing for standard) but my rationale was that the points start to break way before that point as the distributor cam rotates several degrees in advance of being fully open.
She started on the button afterwards, was a heck of a lot quieter without the top end rattle as well as the new exhaust fitted some months back. The throttle response is in a different league, much crisper and pick up improved immeasurably. I will check with Martin about the timing but am sure it is running in excess of 8 deg at idle. It really needs a proper run but I am a little reluctant until I’ve been through the rest of the fluids now, oil & filter change, gearbox & transfer which is probably a bit belt and braces but the leaks are considerable underneath and knowing the PO‘s approach to some of the jobs I think drain plug washers have not been renewed at oil change. As I cannot be sure how full fluids are I would feel better knowing everything has been done properly before venturing out.
It has been a worthwhile exercise and generated some great discussion. Onwards and upwards with the other jobs 😊
Click to expand...
Did you get a chance to do a test run out to see if the engine pulls cleanly and there is no pinking under load, I found some small tweeks to the distributor position really helped to put the engine in 'the sweet spot'. Good progress Steve, I knew there would be no comparison with the previous performance, result :thumbsup:
 
Guitar Mick said:
Did you get a chance to do a test run out to see if the engine pulls cleanly and there is no pinking under load, I found some small tweeks to the distributor position really helped to put the engine in 'the sweet spot'. Good progress Steve, I knew there would be no comparison with the previous performance, result :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I did Mike, just a quick half mile up towards Exmoor which is probably a 15% gradient, enough for second third gear and open throttle. Seemed good but as I say I will check fluid levels etc before going for a proper test, last thing I want is to wreck a gearbox through lack of oil! Pleased with result though and feels I’m getting somewhere with this now thanks to everyones input 👍🏻
 
Mike_Hammond said:
Thats no different to using a 12v bulb on the coil feed, you get the same result.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's not true at all. All you see is the moment the points break, not the moment the resistive plugs and wires deliver a spark to the cylinder, forced later by the spark plug gap. The test light only gets you in the ballpark, many times off by 10+ degrees. Watching spark at the plug gives you very precise timing. You'd think it wouldn't matter but it does.
 
I have a DUI distributor in a 1979 MGB, it is a monster (huge) but it is fantastic! Not sure if it would fit a 2.25 though.
 
As alluded to above, I see the main reason for going to electronic ignition is the increasing difficulty of finding decent quality points and condensers. Another is a fit and forget solution for people who did not grow up with adjusting points. My 88 had a Britpart electronic ignition kit fitted by a previous owner, runs very well and doesn't miss a beat.

We should make a distinction between the modules fitting into an existing distributor, and the electronic kits sold with a pattern distributor. The pattern distributors can vary in quality and may not be set up properly for a LR (or indeed any) engine.

Whether points or an electronic module are fitted, I think it is best to use a original distributor ( if necessary rebuilt by someone reputable) which will have the correct setup for the LR engine.
 
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