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Going tubeless.

Extreedoc

Extreedoc

Big Landy Fan
I've just fixed a leaking tube by going tubeless on one wheel as the tyre was a tubeless one to begin with. Problem is, now that I have done it I'm not sure I feel that it is safe. The tyre is not as tight a fit on the tubed rim as it would be on a tubeless rim and if I suffered a blow-out the tyre would very easily find its way into the well of the wheel and control would be more difficult.
I remember that this was a recognised problem back in the early days of tubeless tyres and was dealt with by the introduction of proper tubeless rims which have a much tighter fit on the bead and also a raised ridge inside to help hold the tyre in place. I'm not even sure if fitting a tubeless tyre with a tubed rim is legal? Comments? (Putting aside the question of leaking rivets vs welded construction).
 
I personally wouldn't do it, but is a burst tube going to be any better at holding the tyre against the edges of the wheel than nothing? Assuming no cornering I believe the weight of the vehicle would be pressing the sides out to the edges at the bottom?
 
If it was originally tubed I would tube it again, however there are tubed and tubeless rims, so some can do both. You have to find the part numbers on the rims to see what they are capable of. If they say they can do both, and you have a tubeless tyre - great.

I bought myself the tools to replace valves, cores, load of new valves, levers so it is great to be able to do these things yourself. Just need to sort out balancing using this method - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHuqMcyqWj4
 
Tube it, I'm trying to find the link to the rim stds. The key is (as you say) the rim shapes are different. Best put a tube in, its a pity because each time you take the tyre off it could be damaged, but I think there's no option.
 
I think you are all right: I should refit the tube and when the new patches arrive I will. I found Solemn's remark interesting though: that the tyre would come off the bead, tube or not, in the event of rapid deflation and he is right.
The more I think about this the more I realise that the real danger could be that the tyre could be pushed off the bead during heavy cornering, (in a Land Rover???) That would be a scary situation... There is no doubt that the tyre is too loose a fit on the bead of the rim with a tubed type wheel, I can inflate the tyre then deflate it and the tyre can then easily be pressed off the bead; try that with a proper tubeless wheel and you'll find things very different.
I still want to go tubeless though so I'm thinking about some new tubeless wheels. I see I could buy original pattern wheels in tubeless type but £60 each? Cheapest seem to be those 8 spoke ones at £35 each, much better but I don't like them on a Land Rover. Alternative is second hand: what about Defender or Disco wheels, does the off-set suit Series? Your thoughts always welcome...
 
Pretty sure early discovery steels fit straight on, but what about modulars. Only paid about £30 each for mine, albeit a couple of years ago. 8 spokes make any vehicle look cheap and nasty IMO.
 
Truckcab79 said:
Pretty sure early discovery steels fit straight on, but what about modulars. Only paid about £30 each for mine, albeit a couple of years ago. 8 spokes make any vehicle look cheap and nasty IMO.
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Yes, you are right, Modulars are now £35 and would look better than the 8 spokes. When you think that a new inner tube is about £20 it makes sense to go the extra mile and buy tubeless wheels.
Question: My existing wheels are 5.5J, these Modulars are 7J, what is your opinion regards fitting 750x16 tyres to them?

http://www.paddockspares.com/land-r...-wheels/16-inch-aftermarket-steel-wheels.html
 
Extreedoc said:
Yes, you are right, Modulars are now £35 and would look better than the 8 spokes. When you think that a new inner tube is about £20 it makes sense to go the extra mile and buy tubeless wheels.
Question: My existing wheels are 5.5J, these Modulars are 7J, what is your opinion regards fitting 750x16 tyres to them?

http://www.paddockspares.com/land-r...-wheels/16-inch-aftermarket-steel-wheels.html
Click to expand...

Ive got black modulars on mine. 16x7 I think. Fitted with 235/85/16 tyres which I believe are similar in size to the 750x16. Look loads better. Fill the arches properly. Makes original wheels and tyres look completely lost.
 
Not the best photo, but only one I have to hand.

ea9269dedd2fbec149f13bee2eaaa66c.jpg
 
They look good. I was thinking silver/grey but I'm not sure they will look right on a green LR. Might end up spraying them Limestone anyway...
 
Extreedoc said:
They look good. I was thinking silver/grey but I'm not sure they will look right on a green LR. Might end up spraying them Limestone anyway...
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Yep. Limestone probably best. Nice sort of 'restomod' feel to it. Worth checking to see if you can get them without the red/blue pinstripe that most seem to have around the edge, or you'll need to spend time rubbing that down before you can paint.
 
Extreedoc said:
Did you have to re-set your lock stops when you fitted these wheels, and what size valves do they take?
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Straight swap. No adjustment to lock stops, at least not in my case. Tyres fit inside the wings. Look like they were made for the job.

Can't answer on valves as I didn't even know there were different sizes! Mate owns a body shop so I took my new wheels and second hand tyres to a colleague of his on the same industrial estate and he mounted them for me. I can photograph them when I get back from work if that helps?
 
Extreedoc said:
Did you have to re-set your lock stops when you fitted these wheels, and what size valves do they take?
Click to expand...


I had modulars on for a while until they rotted through at the valve holes (annoyingly at the point I was fitting tubeless tyres) The offset was significantly bigger than the 5.5J SWB wheels I had on previously and even with 7.50 tyres on they got nowhere near the springs on full lock. I havent compared them to the LWB wheels that I have got now (with the bigger offset the the 5.5J SWB wheels) but I think they still have a bigger offset so you'll still be OK with the lock stops. You might even find you can adjust them for a better turning circle.

gill
 
Truckcab79 said:
Straight swap. No adjustment to lock stops, at least not in my case. Tyres fit inside the wings. Look like they were made for the job.

Can't answer on valves as I didn't even know there were different sizes! Mate owns a body shop so I took my new wheels and second hand tyres to a colleague of his on the same industrial estate and he mounted them for me. I can photograph them when I get back from work if that helps?
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No need for more pics, thanks for the offer... I can ask Paddocks about them. Tubeless valves: 2 common sizes: TR14 and TR15, (larger, found on LRs).

Gill: I've seen them rust at the valve hole too, another good reason to go tubeless.
 
If fitting to 7x16 rims I would be happier with 235/85R16 tyres than with 750R16. Not sure what the rules are, but 235mm is considerably wider than 7.5 inches. Also bear in mind that the wider tyres could well make your steering heavier. I would be inclined to go for the Defender take offs someone linked to earlier, so you get original looks, original steering weight and tubeless rims+tyres. David
 
phoenixdave said:
If fitting to 7x16 rims I would be happier with 235/85R16 tyres than with 750R16. Not sure what the rules are, but 235mm is considerably wider than 7.5 inches. Also bear in mind that the wider tyres could well make your steering heavier. I would be inclined to go for the Defender take offs someone linked to earlier, so you get original looks, original steering weight and tubeless rims+tyres. David
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If so, that would be a deal breaker, I put some 205s on it once just for an experiment and the steering at very low speed was horribly heavy, 235s would be even worse. What is more is that I have 2 new Michelin 750Rx16s to go on. I'll talk to Paddocks about this before I proceed. Thinking about this though, please bear in mind that wider rims won't make the same tyres any wider at the tread.
 
I agree with david, also less trouble insurance wise.

or are you worrying over nothing? a side wall blow out? cause by sustained high speeds at low pressure. so unless you are doing long motorway trips. and are not used to checking your motor before such a trip. it's very unlikely.

where tubes out perform tubless is when off roading with low tyre presures, a tube even at a low pressure will keep the tyre on the rim.
 
I think the key is the retaiing ridge on the tubeless rims. If the tyre gets kerbed or gets a lot of side force the ridge keeps the tubeless tyre on and airtight because the tyre must never move off the rim, if its does its a sudden deflation. A tubed wheel lets the tyre shift but the tube keeps the air in. Tubelss rims tend to hold the tyre on in a blowout, tubed rims tend to have the tyre come off (but old rims aslo have a large well too).
 
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