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Smoke

ER1C

ER1C

Trekker
Site Donor
Series 3... having now the ability to start and run the beast the next to tackle is smoke. I have checked valve clearances, they were ok, number 8 was virtually shut but only a few needed minor adjustment. So what color is this smoke ? (grey ?) I have checked butterfly valve timing which made some difference (to the negative), timing next ? Injector timing was replaced so I was thinking of advancing/retarding to see what difference it made.
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Is this at idle or medium revs? Does it smell like a BBQ lighting (best way I can describe it) or just smokey. Could easily be timing but if it doesn't get better by the time you have moved the pump a fair way then it might not be that. You might get a bit of blue oil smoke from cylinder pitting if it has sat for a long while, but this may improve by itself over time.
If there is any definate knock from the engine then you might have a leaky/ weak injector that would also cause it.
 
LOL yes... BBQ lighting my eyes are streaming from hanging around whilst it warmed up.... and at idle... its sat for a long long time unused...with revs it clears a little, and then the puff of black and back to the grey when foot off..I haven't noticed any knock...I will tweak timing both ways and then report back..
 
Might clear up with just advancing the pump 1 or 2mm. Just watch the pipes and unions as they can become brittle & crack if you overtighten. I cracked one of mine.
Can also be down to air in the pump strangely, as the air acts like a spring so the jets don't snap on and off quickly enough. Might be worth bleeding it again.
 
get it on the road , thrash the hell out of it with new fuel and oils, see what that does to it. worrying about smoke from an engine thats been sat for ages is silly.
 
Lots of answers to this question its like saying if i fall off the roof how many times do i bounce and what will i break LOL.
Run the engine and cup your hand in the smoke does it smell of diesel fuel or burning oil?
If it smells of fuel its not advanced enough!
If it smells of burnt oil it could be worn bores or piston rings stuck or worn or britel valve seals or if its a diesel with a servo it coud be that stupid butterfly valve on the inlet manifold so if you are not using it on the road at the moment take it off just for diagnistic purposes.
The puff of black smoke is likely to be an injector a drop of diesel in the chamber will not burn untill its in the exaust manifold and thats the drop of diesel burning or the compressions are down so not compressing the air to burn the fuel spray..
What you need is a compression test to check the state of your bores/rings and valves and head gasket seal.
Do you live anywhere near Wrexham north wales i have a compression tester and might be able to help you.
I reciently had a white/gray smoke problem on a 2.5td after a re-build and tried everything i could to cure it and failed but annother landy nut was visiting my neiboure and saw the smoke and put his hand into it and smelled it and said its fuel so advance it untill it stops I did and no more white/grey smoke and its got a lot more power.
I still get a little blue smoke on startup but its a 1989 engine (now in my 1959 series11) that pulled a mini digger for most of its life so valve stems and guides are worn
Wally
 
Thanks chaps.. I have advanced and retarded the timing to no avail..I have a compression tester so will pop it on and see what it says.... it wont pass an MOT with the smoke as it is so I cant take it on the road... I however can run the water pump for a while which will probably be the equivalent.... I have smelt the exhaust and tbh I couldn't smell diesel or oil..
 
you can drive it to an mot garage for a test and it doesn't need to be the closest. you can also not take the direct route so you can give it a good run on the way there, as long as you are not deemed to be taking the mick. a guy was prosecuted by the police for stopping to buy fags from a shop. in court the judge ruled that h could stop for fags and din't need to just drive directly there,so thats set in stone now.
 
But it does need to be booked in :) I am not ready to drive it..... it sticks in gear occasionally and I have only done 1 out of 3 brakes :) Keeping in mind the hill we live on hence I have it on axle stands until I have got further with it and once all that's sorted will give it a good run.... I had a brown pants moment when I backed it out and despite the gearstick coming out of gear it was still happily moving on in gear.
 
To be honest, you have to get it properly hot. Its runing at least.

For now, concentrate on getting it moving, and (importantly) stopping. Then you can run it up and down the drive, round the field... but get it fully hot. Not only are you removing old fuel, but you'll clean out any deposits from the exhaust. We once spent hours faffing with the pump settings after fitting a 'new' head, seals valves etc. Put a lot of fuel through it.... finally, still smoking, we decided to run it down the road to put it through a smoke test, purely to see (it had an mot) thrashed it down the A road, got to the garage and there was virtually no smoke. Can only assume that as the exhaust would have had oil in it from the old head, we must have burnt that off. It did always have a grey haze at start up, and I could make it smoke if I wanted to..;) but when running, and at tickover, fine. Hunted a bit from time to time, with burp of accompanying smoke. My current III does that too.

Shame we cant do 'smelly vision'... Could tell a lot from the whiff.
 
nickjaxe said:
I'm supprised advancing the pump timing did not help...how far did you advance it.

Nick.
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Yes how far did you advance it look at the brass plate on the pump it will have an arrow on it to indicate rotation direction to advance it you turn the pump in the opposit direction as far as the end of the sloted holes even if too advanced i should start and might not knock on tickover but will knock as the revs rise if it wont knock there is wear somewhere either in the timming chain/sprockets or the pump itself a local landy repairer used to heat up the short shaft between the pump and scew gear till it was red hot and twist the shaft a little to give more adjustment for the timming if the pump was worn and the owner would not pay for a pump overhaul.
I WAS THAT TIGHT***E WHO HAD NO MONEY AT THE TIME and no other vehical to get to work but it worked.
Wally
 
I only advanced it perhaps 1mm maybe 2... It was tough budging it. As I say the last owner replaced the injection pump..Perhaps I will try again, there was space to go more either way but I was worried about damage.
 
It should turn very very easy...you did undo all the injector pipes at both ends didnt you...with out it wont turn and if it did you would strain the pipes,

Try again...I would be supprised if it did not help,

Sometimes if the chain is very stretched or maybe the valve timing was not set as accurate as it should be you will find owners that need to turn the pump to the end of its slots...even seen the slots elongated with a file...the 2.25d is not an easy engine to set the valve timing up...you maybe suffering a PO who got it wrong,

So dont give up quite so soon...

Nick.
 
Loosen all injector pipes, at the pump and at the injector. Be careful when you retighten them after, its not an olive, its a formed nipple, when it breaks, its at the pipe side of it, so no amount of tightening will seal it, you'll need a new pipe. You have been warned! :)

Looking from above, advancing the pump is clockwise. If you over do it, it will knock or 'crackle'. When that happens, turn it back, until it stops. Should be about right then. Not an exact science, doing itbthat way, fair bit of trial and error. Again, be wary of the pipework.

Theres a pdf somewhere with a more exact wsy of setting it up, which involves removing the cover on the pump, and using timing marks, I'll see if I can find it, or a link.
 
Gracias BS and others.. I have advanced it to its limit (I assume to go further the actual proper timing needs setting inside) ? Anyway its made a huge difference, namely I can run it and not choke to death..... there is perhaps a little tappet tap every now and again so perhaps I need to go back a touch ? All in all I probably only moved it 4mm or so. Good news is the firepump works amazingly now.. must chuck water a good 200ft.
 
Stripped one down once, it was retarded to the eye, but still a bit 'crackly', because the P.O had ground the master spline off the quill shaft.(between the pump and the vertical drive)

Thing to do now is run it and see how it fares...run the engine about 3/4 throttle, you'll know then. Again, put enough fuel through to clean the exhaust.
 
ER1C said:
Gracias BS and others.. I have advanced it to its limit (I assume to go further the actual proper timing needs setting inside) ? Anyway its made a huge difference, namely I can run it and not choke to death..... there is perhaps a little tappet tap every now and again so perhaps I need to go back a touch ? All in all I probably only moved it 4mm or so. Good news is the firepump works amazingly now.. must chuck water a good 200ft.
Click to expand...

My first landy a 2.25 series 11A deisel had no timeing pointer and smoked a bit WHITE/GREY and the pump was fully advanced as far as it would go so as a quick fix i had the drive shaft twisted for more adjustment and it worked. but questin now was how to time it.
I slowly advanced it a pencil line at a time untill it started growling/crackling if i left it a little bit late to change up and then a very small touch of retarding.
I ran that engine for 9 years just short of 120.000miles till i decided the flickering oil light was too worrying so to continue and re-built the engine re-bore crank re grind only to have a 600cc bike write it off as soon as i had run it in.
Wally
 
wally bennett said:
My first landy a 2.25 series 11A deisel had no timeing pointer and smoked a bit WHITE/GREY and the pump was fully advanced as far as it would go so as a quick fix i had the drive shaft twisted for more adjustment and it worked. but questin now was how to time it.
I slowly advanced it a pencil line at a time untill it started growling/crackling if i left it a little bit late to change up and then a very small touch of retarding.
I ran that engine for 9 years just short of 120.000miles till i decided the flickering oil light was too worrying so to continue and re-built the engine re-bore crank re grind only to have a 600cc bike write it off as soon as i had run it in.
Wally
Click to expand...

how does a 600CC bike write off a landrover diesel engine?
 
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