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2020 defender

There's no doubt it's a formidable vehicle, and if we accept the claims that it is the best ever off road capable Land Rover, then it would be high on the wish list. However, I'm confused!
Jaguar Land Rover have already made a fantastic impact on the prestige suv market, the Range Rover has evolved from the original smart comfortable but functional country gentelman's vehicle and is now seen all over the world driven by the rich and famous, and is an iconic symbol of status and fashion awareness. Then we have Discovery, basically another Range Rover competing in the same market as its older brother. Defender was always the utilitarian version, the Land Rover half of Jaguar Land Rover as it were. What seems to have happened here to my mind, is the introduction of a third luxury prestige vehicle competing in the same market as both Range Rover and Discovery. A super off road capable SUV packed full of electronic systems and highly desirable and fashionable styling. But who is the intended customer? The MOD is not going to reequip the UK military with expensive shiney hard to maintain prestige vehicles. Utility companies, emergency services, etc. are going to think hard about whether they can afford to purchase a prestige vehicle rather than any other off road capable vehicle at a more affordable price. I think that JLR have the same market that they have already done so well in as their target for Defender and have not truly understood what the Defender was, were it came from, or why it is so revered.
No doubt, the new Defender will do well and personally, I'd love one, but surely it is going to appeal to the same market that already buys Discovery, so what is the point? It isn't an evolution of Defender that will regain the old Defender market.
Time will tell I guess.
 
ive been trolling people on facebook...

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No doubt, the new Defender will do well and personally, I'd love one, but surely it is going to appeal to the same market that already buys Discovery, so what is the point? It isn't an evolution of Defender that will regain the old Defender market.
Time will tell I guess.

all your points are completely valid, except that the old defender market doesn't exist anymore, which is the reason nobody was buying the old one (despite everyone on the internet saying thats what people want). the market deviated into pickup based utility vehicles probably in the mid 1970s and as with most cars of that era, japanese made them better, better build quality, better equipped, more powerful, produced them quicker and sold them cheaper. land rover had several concepts to follow the market but never got bank rolled due to several mergers and takeovers or corporate decisions, the largest of which was rover group hedging all its bets on the 200/400/600. the fact of the matter is old defender was several shades of outdated, realisticaly was several under funded stop gap updates on the 1958 series 2, i think thats why the new one is such a huge culture shock
 
The utility market is still there, it's just deviated, as you say to pick up type things like the navarra, l200 etc. Land Rover could quite easily have made something that fitted that role, compliant with safety regs, convertible into different uses etc and cheap enough to be able to compete with the Japanese stuff. The direction that LR have gone though, that would be like Audi making a van or Bentley making a bus. LR simply isn't a utility vehicle manufacturer any more. They make luxury vehicles that happen to be good off-road.
 
The utility market is still there, it's just deviated, as you say to pick up type things like the navarra, l200 etc. Land Rover could quite easily have made something that fitted that role, compliant with safety regs, convertible into different uses etc and cheap enough to be able to compete with the Japanese stuff. The direction that LR have gone though, that would be like Audi making a van or Bentley making a bus. LR simply isn't a utility vehicle manufacturer any more. They make luxury vehicles that happen to be good off-road.

agree, while i would like them to take on isuzu and toyota with a ute, it didnt seem likely now they have spent the last 30 years carving a niche into the prestige market. however there will definitely be a commercial defender, mcgovern said himself on tuesday, and there is already a commercial disco5. i know that doesnt mean trevor is going to start strapping ladders to the roof for his window cleaning round though. but the new defender really isnt as luxurious as a range rover or a hse disco5, its just more luxurious than a wrangler/cheroke or an FJ cruiser/4runner
 
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...Land Rover says the Defender’s chassis is three times stiffer than the next best in market, and can withstand a 6.5-tonne recovery load and 7.0-tonne vertical load through the suspension...

...all the handles and internal structures are designed to be as tough as the car. Collins claims if you leave the car in neutral you can push it forward with the grab handle on the instrument panel...

...The 815mm wheel diameter for the 18-inch wheel is designed for extreme off-roading when required (Collins says you can drive up a big sand dune in Dubai without lowering the tyre pressures) ...

... Collins says you can drive up a 45-degree slope thanks to the strongest driveshafts ever deployed on any Land Rover.

...The brakes are no longer physically connected to the master cylinder, now the pedal connects to the actuator which controls a piston-driven hydraulic system. Collins says it produces far more precise and linear brake pressures on-road and allows the traction control system to work better on-road. The system can brake each wheel individually in 150ms from when slip is detected...

https://www.caradvice.com.au/791472/2020-land-rover-defender-engineering/
 
I think it will steal some sales from their other models. I was extremely close to buying a Discovery Sport for my daily driver in January when i pulled out of our company car scheme. Reliability questions put me off and I bought VW. However, if the new Defender has car like road manners and handling (which the old one didn’t) then I may be interested in the future. This would potentially be a sale lost to the Disco Sport so it wouldn’t be new money to the brand.
I do hope it wins over sales from Toyota, Nissan and other ute markets. It could become the vehicle of choice for successful subcontractors with anger management issues and the likes, as it promotes the right image.
 
The brakes are no longer physically connected to the master cylinder, now the pedal connects to the actuator which controls a piston-driven hydraulic system.

By "actuator" do they mean switch?

I hope it's a damn sight more reliable than recent Land Rover electrics have been.

Al.
 
Saw a 19 plate range Rover HSE in the petrol station earlier. Guy seemed to be having difficulties. It was less than 6 months old and kept randomly breaking down. Apparently everything electrical just goes off including the engine. Had been back to the dealer twice already.

If they can't get their flagship model working right... Imagine that happened with these brake by wire things. I'm sure it's fail safe but does that mean it slams the brakes on at 70mph while every other electrical device switches off, including steering presumably. Nah, the modern stuffs not my cup of tea. I might come round to it eventually but meh.
 
That's the thing, someone, at some point will find a way to intercept the wire.ess electronics - perhaps a jammer or something. Look how what once were very secure alarm and key chip systems and after a few years the criminals caught up. Have to be honest, I'm not overly gone on the idea. Then again, no brake fluid and no brake fluid changes.
 
Then again, no brake fluid and no brake fluid changes.
I'd imagine it still has "normal" brakes, but the pedal will be a potentiometer, like throttle pedals are nowadays. There will be an actuator of some description to work a master cylinder or even a separate MC for each wheel. Maybe a larger version of an ABS unit.

My A8 brakes itself (very efficiently, it hasn't moved in nearly a year 😭) with the adaptive cruise control. If you are driving along at 70 and someone pulls out in front at 50, it will put on the brakes. It'll be a similar system but works whenever you use them rather than when it decides.

I would guess that the pedal will feel weird at best. A bit like the brakes on a hydropneumatic citroën maybe.
 
I'd imagine it still has "normal" brakes, but the pedal will be a potentiometer, like throttle pedals are nowadays. There will be an actuator of some description to work a master cylinder or even a separate MC for each wheel. Maybe a larger version of an ABS unit.

My A8 brakes itself (very efficiently, it hasn't moved in nearly a year 😭) with the adaptive cruise control. If you are driving along at 70 and someone pulls out in front at 50, it will put on the brakes. It'll be a similar system but works whenever you use them rather than when it decides.

I would guess that the pedal will feel weird at best. A bit like the brakes on a hydropneumatic citroën maybe.

same system on current range rover. i drove a vogue autobiography 300 miles round trip from kent to solihull, then LR experience's own vogue autobiography round both test tracks (pure chance, i didnt actually know what car it would be, they offered me a 110 and i said no because i already know what thats like!). it was quite "fun" watching the adaptive cruise control and auto braking playing a game of dare in stop start traffic, hovering over the brake pedal thinking is it going to stop? the LR experience vehicle was on road tyres too, real eye opener about how capable new land rovers are, offroad, i would say astonishing. i think thats why i get a bit, erm, "passionate" when people on facebook keep rubishing the new stuff as chelsea tractors.
 
There's the thing, the new models are incredibly talented off road. Quite an eye opener..... That is what they see as their usp.

Thing is, if you're going to splurge £90 large on a posh car, you won't want to go offroading with it... Tow the horse box on and off the show field maybe.

There's the major fault with that usp. It's not a usp for somebody who doesn't want to do that with it.

I'll have one. If they give it to me free... Its the only way I'm ever like to own something like that.
 
Saw a 19 plate range Rover HSE in the petrol station earlier. Guy seemed to be having difficulties. It was less than 6 months old and kept randomly breaking down. Apparently everything electrical just goes off including the engine. Had been back to the dealer twice already.

If they can't get their flagship model working right... Imagine that happened with these brake by wire things. I'm sure it's fail safe but does that mean it slams the brakes on at 70mph while every other electrical device switches off, including steering presumably. Nah, the modern stuffs not my cup of tea. I might come round to it eventually but meh.

If Boeing cant get it right - do you trust JLR..?
 
Ooft, I didn't look at the price. There's a promo video for it kicking around online. Kind of a joint James bond, land Rover, Lego advert.
 
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