JayHoe's '72 2.25 88" rebuild

[Raincrow]

LOL!


How straightforward is removing and the reinstalling a door skin? When it comes to the bonnet, I would have to get the dome rivets of to get inside the spars... is it possible to re do them afterwards?

Cheers

John

There do-able and fairly easy enough to remove..... The bonnet it's just a matter of drilling out the rivets and separating it from the support frame. The 3/16" solid rivets and tools to set them can be had and might try the series section board for local sources.....
The door skins are folded back over the door frame along the edge and it's just a matter of prying up the fold and drilling out the rivets near the handle to get the door skin off..... Now with unfolding the edge of the door skin what works best for me is to heat the edge with a bottled torch a short section at a time and then pry the lip up with a small pry bar, screwdriver or the like. This helps in both softening the alloy and loosening the caulking that's between the frame and the door skin. Just use caution as to not over heat the alloy skin as it will warp !!! rite easily......But by taking some time and care the skins can be removed cleaned up and reused......

I'd say that galvanizing the door and bonnet frames with out warpage depends on the galvanizer. If you can come across a recommended out-fit that's done them with success,,,,, might then go for it.... Other than that, sandblasting and a epoxy primer makes for a durable alternative on the frames.

When you go to put the skins back on, use a good seam-sealer or like caulking to isolate the alloy from the frames.....Then with a few clamps, hammer dolly or such the lip of the door skin can be folded back down and crimped onto the door frame.... They make a proper tool for folding and crimping door skins, but I'd not know where to source in the UK...... Not absolutely nessisary, but it does make for a better finished job.



Oh, and John......Might well comment that in just reading what all you've got accomplish here of late has me contemplating doing as the cat and seeking a place to curl-up and take a nap..

Carry on and best of fortune

Dave

 

[Raincrow]

Couple of pic's of what used in mount door skins

 

[JayHoe]

Thanks for the door info - hope I can find it again when I come to do them

I have been quite fortunate that I currently have plenty of time - the problem is money

Right, today I had a fiasco with my new bulkhead, I discovered that it had been dropped causing some brackets to get bent and perhaps some of the top panelling to be twisted. I have rejected it and they are going to reorder for me.

Hey ho, bang goes half a day

Back to the wee beasty. I don't know how everyone elses door seals are fastned, but mine are with masses of pop rivets. I have been drilling them out with a cordless drill. It is a long job as I have to be careful, plus the battery doesn't last forever - plus I would rather be doing other stuff! So every now and then I do a few more.

The WD40 on all the roof bolts worked a treat. It was a straightforward but laborious job taking out the bolts. None of them ran freely on their threads due to rust - so I had to spanner them all right off. (With some more door seal rivets every now nd then).

Finally, I cut through some sealant liberally applied beneath the roof and nicely glueing it on and..... ta daa! The roof is temporarily off. It will be used during the bulkhead conversion to ensure hinge etc positioning is correct. I have left the walls on until after that time.

As the seat belts were bracketed up at roof join level, they are now in a pile. I removed them as well for safekeeping.

I undid the long internal fasteners for the windscreen and have 'managed' to loosen the bolt on the passengers side windscreen mount on the front. The drivers side won't budge.

Any ideas? I have given it a good dose of WD40, but it looks solid. Also, apart from loosening the external hinges and undoing the two internal clamps, is there anything else holding the windscreen from tilting forward?? (Oh, took wipers off as well )

Pics: Note the large dollop of PO sealant wonder glue!

 

[JayHoe]

1. Passenger belt

2. After removing drivers belt

3. The solid drivers window hinge - help!

 

[JayHoe]

Dave Raincrow, just noticed your homemade crimping tool - smart!

 

[Snagger]

It looks like you'll have to shear that windscreen bolt and drill out the remnants later, then re-tap the thread (you'd be re-tapping it anyway, once transferred to the new bulkhead).

Door skins aren't bad to fit, just a bit fiddle. You have to be very careful not to mark the new skin as it's so soft. For the price of new door bottoms, and the fact that the steel frames are likely to have a bit of rust, you may as well just replace the whole bottom, paint them and generously apply clear waxoil or Dinitrol to the insides of the frames and the joints between frames and skins.

The big plastic grommet on the right side of the gear box tunnel is for access to the flywheel locking tool and aperture. I've not seen one on the left side. The bigger rubber cap on the left side behind the gear stick is for filling the gear box, but it's not very useful where it is. Any grommets on the left side of the bulkhead's centre section are for the hand throttle holes.

I know it's an extra expense later, but I would recommend one of Drew Wright's mat systems rather than replacing the sound proofing felt and carpets - it's neater, easier to clean and non-porous. It still traps any leaked water underneath, but you can just lift the mat, wipe with a cloth and drop it back down - no need to remove and ventilate. He can do them in black, if requested, rather than the standard dark grey.

 

[matt d]

It's a very honest looking landy which makes it look like a fairly easy rebuild compared to my wreck.
I suggest working on getting the new chassis rolling first. Dont worry about the bodywork yet.
I had to do a swift mechanical rebuild around a new chassis, recon gearbox and engine plus a new td5 bulkhead over the winter. I needed it to tow my boat in the summer months and she passed the mot on monday. I had to throw the old bodywork and doors back on due to time running out but that's easily restored without taking her back off the road.
It's a nice feeling when you get to drive it after working so hard on it.

 

[JayHoe]

I didn't get much done yesterday with one thing and another (including taking my youngest age 6 to the doctor - she burned her left hand and right arm on an iron).

In the evening I tackled the screen again - more WD40 and it wouldn't shift. I priced the windscreen to bracket eye bolts and they are around £20 each inc vat I considered Nicks suggestion at shearing the bolt and even though I may still have to, I really want it all in place for now for test fitting with the new bulk head.

So.... I decided to take a gas wrench to it with a heat shield for the window. I heated the eye and then the tube in the hinge - carefully! I took the socket to the nut again and held the window and slowly but surely the window moved. It then free to the extent that I can now tilt it back and forward. This means I have access to the rusty nut on the inside of the window and can remove the eyebolt leaving it on the hinge to work on later.

The seal was ancient and crappy, the top rail is as suspected totallty shot. It is un fortunately a poor design in that any rain that seeps past the seal will just sit on the top rail with no way out... except to rust its way through. It was too late to take pics and post last night so here they are...

1. The windscreen folded forward showing the crappy seal plus PO black sealant. The galv base of the frame is 100% fine thank goodness.

2. The top rail, holed like a swiss cheese.

Next job is to remove the windscreen and wings giving easy access to both sides to strip the bulkhead.

 

[JayHoe]

Matt,

This is going to be a total rebuild from chassis up. Yes the bodywork is to be done later, I just like to make rough plans in my head that I can adjust later. For instance, I am toying with the idea of getting a split tailgate, hood and sticks so I can go sans hard top in the summer.

Nick, thanks for your comments. Hopefully I can get this sorted to the extent of using the existing bolt and eye, but it appears in such a state that replacement may be a wise move. But I don't need to do that now so I can see if I get lucky at Billing for instance.

Also, I will not be replacing the sound matting and am not sure if I will have any carpeting at all. I am happy with Landys in a 'working' state so may just run with say a rubber mat in each footwell. I can see beauty is this basic vehicle setup as well as the luxury setup you have. Still, another decision for way down the road.

Cheers Guys.

 

[biosbill]

Personally, I prefer them without the soundproofing. I think as you say its a working vehicle, and the sound proofing just gives another opertunity for water to collect, and rust to start.

Im just going to use rubber mats in each footwell, as they're easilly removable, and can be cleaned behind.

 

[JayHoe]

Just got a call from Land Rover Dealer, and my replacement replacement bulkhead should arrive tomorrow, so I should have it by the weekend.

Very helpful guys.

 

[JayHoe]

Today couldn't do tons as I have to work tonight and can't be covered in grease and oil!

I removed the windscreen, leaving the mounts on the bulkhead. The threads were pretty crappy so I think I will replace the brackets when rebuilding, but they should do for the test fits. I then removed the battery and started work on clearing the wings for removal. I took of the grill and saw a mess of wiring behind it plus to each side of the rad. A real birds nest of wires made up of 3 inch sections. Under the wings it was just as bad - and the lights should be the straightforward part of the loom (including the horn and washer pump).

I had to pull bullet connects apart that broke instead of disconnecting. I'm not worried as I will be installing a new loom but what a mess. I had fun trying to unbolt the p-clips holding the loom to the OS wing, the bolts are rusty and it is next to impossible to hold both sides single handedly... then my ratchet decided to break! I did what I could and will continue tomorrow. I shall pick up a new ratchet (and maybe the bulkhead). I should have most of Friday to Sunday to work on it.

1. No windscreen
2. Dodgy OSF light wiring
3. Loom on OS before going in front of rad - WTF!
4. Loom in front of rad - broken into and led BACK to OSF wing plus additional earth points!! Also noted that the rad panel is only fastened with one bolt at the bottom, not three
5. Mess of NSF lighting wiring (some extra bits totally removed!)
6. Passenger foot well - Speaker cable, aerial and additional wiring loom for stereo - not connected at either end, now pulled out

 

[matt d]

Personally, I prefer them without the soundproofing. I think as you say its a working vehicle, and the sound proofing just gives another opertunity for water to collect, and rust to start.

Im just going to use rubber mats in each footwell, as they're easilly removable, and can be cleaned behind.

Same here. As i'm towing my boat to a rather salt water covered slipway i'm choosing to just go with a cover over the transmission tunnel and rubber mats that i can easily take out to check all is dry underneath if required. Luckily the length of my boat trailer and slope of the slipway means my Landy never goes wading in the river.
I suppose we all have different uses for these vehicles and just adapt them to suit.
Those windscreen seals are indeed ****e. Nice foam that seems to soak up water. I welded the windscreen brackets too high on my bulkhead so the seal doesn't quite squeeze in the gap. I'm gonna find something a bit more suitable i think.

 

[justMike]

Ohhhhhhhhh......... Scotchlocks... Looooooooovelyyyyyyyyy....

<shudderin...

whoever invented the damn things needs t suffer having their skin peeled...then rolled in salt... gawdddd...

 

[JayHoe]

Aaah the joys of removing a wing that has probably never come of before I firstly removed the steering box guard and it appeared in reasonable condition. On closer examination, I found it had corroded thru in a couple of places. I presume that these aren't too much so I think I will replace with new. As well as its top and bottom bolt, it had one stuck out on a tab - but this was fastened to nothing as the inner wing skin had corroded all around it until it was stuck in mid air.

I struggled with numerous other bolts until I reached the point that I got fed up. Instead for a change of scene I removed the drivers floor - and every fixing bar one had to be ground out. On lifting the floor, I found that this area of the chassis seemed pretty sound - and the outrigger rang like a bell. Yep, it was a replacement. Fine as far as it goes, but whoever did it couldn't be arsed to remove the floor and weld across the top

Back to the wing. The splash plate was pretty corroded as were the bottom fixings - it was only after quite a struggle that I thought what am I doing... the plate is toast any way, and the footwells are going to be replaced. So I cut the ******. I also had to cut part of its top as well to free it. Then more bolts - every one would move... but with a lot of effort until it reached the ends of the threads. Very awkward to do by yourself, and as the Mrs was having none of it, I roped in my middle girl, Ellie. Grand job!

The fixings to the bulkhead pillar were easy - UNC thread?? And finally, got the wing off. There is corrosion at the base of the pillar, but surprisingly little really. The rear end of the wings inner skin looks like its been eaten. Is this salvageable? It seemed sturdy enough while it was all in place - what does everyone think?

I then removed the passenger floor and this time only had to grind off 2 fixings, but the rest are crap anyway. Again the chassis main rails seem ok, I guess it is the heat of the engine and g/box that has been protecting them. Still loath to tackle the second wing, I removed the trans tunnel - piece of cake. Needs a good clean of course but seems sound.

With Ellie back on the case, I decided to remove the seat box and leave the 2nd wing for today. We got front and side fixings off, but the Mrs stopped play before I could remove the rear fixings - so first job for the next session. Followed by wing and then start the dash.

1. Drivers floor removed - good outrigger, lack of welding on top
2. Steering box guard - corroded through - best to replace I think
3. Manky view of bottom of drivers floor
4. Ellie doing her stuff helping dad!
5. 1st view with wing removed
6. View of drivers footwell, showing remains of splash guard after cut off
7. End of inner wing skin corroded
8. Dead splash guard - to be replaced
9. Corrosion around wing to rad panel mount holes
10. Close up of corroded away fixing points on wings inner skin
11. Passenger floor and trans tunnel removed
12. Sound trans tunnel in need of a severe clean!

 

[justMike]

HRH's wings had fizzed in exactly the same places... frustrating to see a huge mild steel washer sized hole in otherwise sould metal...

Mounting tabs can always be fabricated and fixed to the original wing, the dodgy bit is the main seam that mates with the bulkhead... I canna see a way of avoiding having a row of fixings marking where a repair piece joins original...

Persoanally, I bit the bullet... new inner / outer wings... gave me tons of sound material which was exactly what I needed to accomidate all the custom fabrication...

 

[JayHoe]

Thanks for that Mike. I sall ponder on it as it will be months before I need them - I might get hold of a bargain somewhere!

Anyway, today just had a small play in the garage and removed the seat box. It looks generally in good condition, but one or two mounting point have corroded away It will be easier to decide what to do once it is cleaned up a bit and we can see whats what.

1. Underneath the seat box, drivers side
2. Underneath the seat box, passenger side
3. Seat belt mounts. Although lots of corrossion, they seem sound. However, not worth a risk - any doubt once cleaned, then out they go.
4. Drivers side with no box or floor - hey, that tank looks good...
5. It sure does. That can't be very old, cant see any corrosion on it at all!
6. Passenger side, no box or floor. Mmmmmm greasy gear box!

 

[justMike]

any awkward bits with the seatbox removal Joe..?? Right now I'm trying to modify a new Defender (300TDi I think) spec box to replace the original... terminal bi-metal corrosion...

that boingy bunch (bracin for the onslaught) aren't half spoiled... sheesh... battery box is MASSIVE... with another specifically for electrickery under the drivers seat too... spoiled rotten I tell ya...

 

[JayHoe]

No, fairly straight forward - just lots of bolts. I think that mine has fizzed previously and a PO has added some strengthening strips along the bottom of each side to cover perished fixing holes. As I said, hard to tell until all cleaned up - something else I'm not going to worry about right now

Had to ensure that the handbrake was OFF to actually manouvere the box out, so you need to chock, and it requires two people to tilt and tip it because of the large size (not weight, its light).

Good luck.

 

[JayHoe]

Back to it this afternoon - the dreaded wing

I again had to resort to cutting the splash guard that although generally was sound if not pretty, its fixings at the footwell were lumps of rust! On the NS wing, the fixings to the rad panel are more straightforward than on the OS as the nuts are on captive bolts on strips - i.e. you don't have to worry about the bolt turning.

I still had a few others that were pigs, but like the OS, the NS bulkhead fixings came out extremely easily. Once I had the wing off and stood on end I was able to compare with the drivers wing. It is in much better condition - in fact so much that I am convinced it is a replacement wing. For instance, the bracket that the top of the splash guard bolts to was immaculate, but on the driver wing it is gone and had been replaced with a steel strap. This strap was now fizzing the wing and itself was so rusted it had to be cut. There is no corrosion around the various fixing holes on the 2nd wing. Making this comparison really shows how bad the previous one is. Yep, now I know I want a replacement.

I then did some tidying up and hung the floor panels, plastic grill, trans tunnel and seatbox on nails in the wall. They are all now out of the way and safe from being kicked. I then started tackling the drivers sill and sill panel only to find the sill mount at one end is immovable and the sill panel at the OTHER end is immovable - grrrr! Quit for the day.

1. Passenger side, wing removed

2. Passenger side of engine bay (cut splash panel remains on RHS

3. Some bits hanging safe out of the way

4. The seat box hung up

5. The passenger side splash plate - destined for the skip

6. Inside of passenger wing - nice

7. Inside of drivers wing - not nice, its been eaten!

8. Non corroded rad panel-wing mount holes

9. Bulkhead end of wing mount holes - note middle two are slots - this means you can start them by hand before sliding wing in place as the are a little awkward.

10. Front view - she looking a little nude now