Series III - 2.25 Diesel heater plugs

[Series 1 2 & 3]

My late model S3 diesel has what I believe is a petrol ignition switch. The glows are operated by turning the key against the spring (the starter motor position in most cars). A button has been fitted to turn the starter.....rockets have these (apparently).

I would have liked to have had the correct diesel switch arrangement but I dislike electrics and would have a distrust of reliability of any new replacement ignition switch, Lucas or otherwise.

That sounds like a very good alternative.

 

[ER1C]

I think you are missing the point there are only 2 switches..I am loving your input but its a diesel and there are only 2 switches and only 1 fits 579084 therefore I have the right switch... end of story.. the PDF post proves the ignition is the Diesel Pull...so there must be something else causing the issue.. therefore I need to persevere a bit more to be sure.. I refuse to botch a workaround when I purchased a Series for a reason.

If you look at my post #23 you will see four different part numbers.
Part numbers 551508 (petrol) and PRC2670 (diesel) are for early ignition switches without steering locks.
Part numbers 579085 (petrol) and 579084 (diesel) are for later ignition switches with steering locks.
The problem as I understand it, is that you cannot get the diesel glow plugs to operate by themselves when turning the ignition key.
On my series III when I turn the key in the ignition from the off position, the steering lock is released and the ignition light comes on.
If I turn the key a little more against the spring return the diesel-stop control is released and the glow plugs operate.
If I turn the key further the starter operates.
If you cannot get this to happen then you either have the wrong ignition switch or you have not wired it up correctly.
I'm fairly certain that by this time you have tried all the wiring connection combinations possible!
Therefore I think the switch is not the original type for your vehicle.
But you have another option.
Why not fit a glow plug timer like the post-Series diesel Land Rovers?

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

I think you are missing the point there are only 2 switches..I am loving your input but its a diesel and there are only 2 switches and only 1 fits 579084 therefore I have the right switch... end of story.. the PDF post proves the ignition is the Diesel Pull...so there must be something else causing the issue.. therefore I need to persevere a bit more to be sure.. I refuse to botch a workaround when I purchased a Series for a reason.

So what are you saying?
That you cannot connect the ignition switch up correctly?
Or I'm making it all up?
I suggest you look around other diesel series 3s next time you are at a show and you will find that my 4-sequence ignition is standard.
i.e. off > on > glow plugs > starter
I completely agree with your wish to keep your SIII pucka. Why do you think I have persevered on this thread.
Unfortunately the spares market is not always pucka, far from it, and will sell whatever is available to it that often just does the job but not completely or sometimes hardly at all.
I don't know why your ignition switch isn't working the way it should.
What I do know is that there are a lot of fakes on the market that mimic the real thing so good (or the only thing available) that bona fide companies sell them as legitimate.
I've lived with Land Rovers for decades and seen the coming and going and ups and downs of spares and can relate many a tale, some which would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end.
Track rod ends that snap easily, wheel bearing thrust washers made from cast iron that shatter, rubber gaiters that last less than a week and many more.

In my young days I was an electrician by trade so for me the wiring harness of an SIII is very simple.
There are only so many combinations of the four connections on the ignition switch you can make and if you have tried them all and it still doesn't work there is only one conclusion that you can come to.
However if you choose not believe me then so be it.

 

[ER1C]

Easy chief.... I wasn't having ago and was sincere on my loving your input comment and I appreciate every second you have made helping.. and you have helped. I am still trying alternatives, I suspect the issue may be worth wiring from the past rather than the ignition or switch itself...I don't think I have the wrong ignition switch which is where we differ as there are only 2 which fit this ignition and it is a 3 stage ignition 0 1 2 3 as you state..... Odly this evening I tried to wire up a bypass on manual switch which didn't work ? So I am now wondering if there could be an earth or something somewhere only apparent on Position 3 ?

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

There is no earth wire attached to the switch.
Do you have any electrical test equipment?
A simple multimeter (dead cheap on ebay) and/or a 12 volt bulb wired to croc clips is all you need.
I'd check the cables supplying the switch.
Basically there are four connections to provide the 0-1-2-3 ignition switch.
.
Supply
There should be a large wire (usually brown) which is the live 12 volt supply usually fed from the solenoid on the starter motor but sometimes taken off the alternator.
Be careful with this wire. Don't short it to the chassis.
There should also be another brown wire that feeds the fuses for lights, horn etc.
If you connect that wire to the 12 volt supply the horn and lights should work.
Both brown wires should be connected together on the back of the switch.
.
Heater plugs
There should be a wire (usually brown and red) to the cold warning light resistor for the glow plugs (proper name heater plugs).
If you connect that wire to the 12 volt supply the lamp should light up and the plugs and resistor get hot.
(the warning light should be a 6 volt bulb)
.
Ignition on
There should be a large wire (usually white) that feeds the fuses for wipers/indicators etc.
If you connect that wire to the 12 volt supply the wipers and indicators should operate.
.
Starter
Also there should be a wire (usually white and red) that supplies the starter solenoid.
If you connect that wire to the 12 volt supply the starter should turn. (make sure you are not in gear)
.
Once you have checked the above wires are present and properly connected let me know and I'll tell you how to test the switch.

 

[ER1C]

I am way beyond that as the first posts indicated.. I have tested them all, I have definite circuit from the glow plug ignition wire all the way through to the battery negative -(via the ballast resistor)... hence why I assumed the switch was duff... and I have swapped the switch out... This really is a little like the twilight zone..UNLESS.... the ignition is broken ? I hadn't considered that to be honest.....

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

I am way beyond that as the first posts indicated.. I have tested them all, I have definite circuit from the glow plug ignition wire all the way through to the battery negative -(via the ballast resistor)... hence why I assumed the switch was duff... and I have swapped the switch out... This really is a little like the twilight zone..UNLESS.... the ignition is broken ? I hadn't considered that to be honest.....

Candidly, if you are "way beyond that" then you should know what the problem is by now.
It really isn't that difficult but you do have to be thorough, hence my post.
If you are not thorough with your testing, and from what you say you don't appear to be e.g. your comment "ignition broken ? I hadn't considered that to be honest", you will not sort this out properly and expeditiously.

 

[ER1C]

I don't agree..... I have thoroughly tested many items....your posts appear to have a fixed mindset but ignoring my findings and focusing on the "wrong ignition switch" with the utmost respect I would rather you leave me to it... thanks..

 

[ER1C]

All fixed. It would appear the position for the glowplugs is a partial position between ignition fixed positions which I hadn't realised. Hence if you hold the key 1/2 way it works ... Totally different to the way the Defender Ignition is i.e when it gets to a fixed position the glow plugs come on. Duh ! It only took me a new ignition to work that out Incidentally I just purchased 6 BRITPART heater plugs and 3 OOTB failed a conductivity test between the tip and the middle... 50 % failure rate.

 

[Big Sandy]

Wish I'd seen this earlier.... yes, the glow position on the switch isnt a 'position'as such, its manually held against the spring tension before the starter position, as series1,2,3 mentioned earlier in the thread. But its all according to what you've been used to, the defender switchbeing differentwith a timer, and all. Glad you got it sussed!

 

[ER1C]

Wish I'd seen this earlier.... yes, the glow position on the switch isnt a 'position'as such, its manually held against the spring tension before the starter position, as series1,2,3 mentioned earlier in the thread. But its all according to what you've been used to, the defender switchbeing differentwith a timer, and all. Glad you got it sussed!

LOL me too so if anyone needs a "new ignition switch (Lucas) For a Series 3, or an new ignition and switch for the non steering lock type let me know ... Ohh I see Series 1,2,3 did say that... Humble Pie yum yum yum

 

[Big Sandy]

Its working now, thats what counts . You'll have toget usedtohowlong the plugs take, this time of year, probably 10 seconds or so, longer as it gets colder. Minus 28 here, and it took me two shots of heat of 20 seconds with a turn over between to get it fired up. But thats a bit extreme....

By the way, apologies for the lack of spacing at times, space bar doesnt always work!

 

[ER1C]

Any idea on blowing plugs ? I have burnt through 3 heater plugs on the same position....#2... Its a new Ballast resistor so cant figure it out... Assume some/any short would give less not more power on the cabling side.. It was fine starting but didn't try to heat on next run (Odly after the noise which caused me to stop it) I suspect perhaps an injector or something nasty is at the bottom giving the plug some grief..

Its working now, thats what counts . You'll have toget usedtohowlong the plugs take, this time of year, probably 10 seconds or so, longer as it gets colder. Minus 28 here, and it took me two shots of heat of 20 seconds with a turn over between to get it fired up. But thats a bit extreme....

By the way, apologies for the lack of spacing at times, space bar doesnt always work!

 

[Big Sandy]

Probably a bit of carbon or something, causing that plug to short out.

You using the early pigtail type? Guess you must be if you have the resistor in circuit. With mine, its usually the plug nearest the bulkhead that goes. If it happens when you're out, or you dont have a spare, you're okay to bypass it, and start on three plugs, just change the burnt out one as soon as.

Again, if you have a timing issue, that can cause the plugs to break (rather than burn out), but its got to be pretty bad. Had one once that had a hell of a knock, and kept breaking plugs....turned out that whoever plumbed it up had got no2 and no3 injector pipes crossed. Gawds knows how. Had me stumped for a bit, cos doing that isnt exactly easy, them pipes take a bit of bending! So, dont rule anything out that makes no sense, if you follow.

I know you've spent a fair bit of time getting the heaters working, but if you keep on having problems it might be worth using the later plugs, at least you'll always be able to start without faffing with the wiring to the plugs if one goes down....just remember to leave the resistor out of the circuit if you upgrade.

 

[ER1C]

Cheers I suspect a timing issue as it has a reconditioned injector pump.. That may well explain an awful lot of what I have been finding.... I did wonder why someone went to the trouble of a new recon injector pump and then sell it for not much.

 

[ER1C]

I have managed to get the plug bypassed but the next in line blew. What is the correct way to test the ballast resistor ? I installed a new one. with a multimeter over the contacts with a battery on either side it tests as 12v which i know shouldnt be right. The resistor glows, I was thinking surely the multimeter is showing the current from the battery ? am i testing it correctly. AFAIK the resistor is pushing 12v to the glow plugs which would explain them blowing. I assume no mis ignition wiring as the only 2 brown lives have different spades ? Any idea ?

 

[secondjeremy]

The ballast resistor is simply a coil of thick wire strung between 2 terminals. Providing the individual coils are not touching it can't go wrong unless someone has substituted the resistor wire for copper. So if it conducts - it works - if it doesn't - replace (having checked the terminals)

Are you sure you're wiring the plugs correctly? There are 2 terminals above the body - and circuit is from top to side. If ANY of the intermediate terminals is going to earth the plugs will blow. So for example a loose ring terminal touching the plug body will cause the circuit to earth and overload the plugs between that point and the earth.

Having done that disconnect the front wire to earth, now connect the test lamp between that terminal and earth - and operate the glow plugs. If there is an intermediate short the light will NOT come on.

 

[ER1C]

Back from vacation... It appears I have wired them the wrong way i.e top to bottom from the resistor rather than top to bottom from the battery due to the lousy diagram I had from Froogle..... I will swap in the morning but would that cause them to blow ?

 

[nickjaxe]

As a get you home tip with the old style plugs...if you know which one has blown bypass it by joining the terminals of the duff plug by fitting both on top of the ceramic insulator...you will then have 3 to get you started,

I would fit a replacement ASAP to avoid damaging the other 3.

Nick.

 

[ER1C]

TA.. Second Jeremy was spot on....I have found the number 1 plug which I replaced the cable on wasn't fully down on the glow plug so that would have been the equivalent of the bypass.... I have rectified and back to #2 my always problematic plug.. most of the glow coil has dropped into the cylinder... Do I need to get this out, I heard some say starting should force it out, is that with plug removed ?? I am not usually worried as its usually a break in the pigtail however this is literally the whole pigtail isn't there.