Dirtyberties engine thread

[Dave Cook]

From a planning perspective, given that whatever happens the engine is going to have to come out, is it worth Jo starting to think about stripping out the floor etc so that the gearbox can be got to?

 

[Slow Progress]

From a planning perspective, given that whatever happens the engine is going to have to come out, is it worth Jo starting to think about stripping out the floor etc so that the gearbox can be got to?

That’s a very fair point, there’s plenty that needs doing before spending on the block/engine.

i’m also like Erubus (figuratively speaking!) though wondering if the block is salvageable or not. When I see Ross next week I’ll ask if he knows of any going for sale.

 

[Cliff4WD]

As I see it, the head gasket had completely burned through in the area between 3 and 4 cylinders. On inspection, the head was cracked in this area and was only saved by running weld and skimming. Now on further inspection, it turns out the block has a visibly deep crack in the area corresponding with the head crack.

The engine was making a bad noise when running and it is obviously related to the state of the cracking. Also, there was an issue with the big end cap bolt on the same piston in bore 3 which may be due to the failing head/block or may itself have contributed to the cracking. It may also be due to a previous attempt to fix the noise having diagnosed big end bearing failure as the cause. Evidence of this is the new bearing shells and possibly the bent bolt having been done during that repair.
Either way, what we have now is a badly compromised engine which may be beyond economic repair and only an enthusiastic but unskilled owner to evaluate the situation.
I agree with Erebus that the engine needs a more expert inspection and a realistic assessment made of the viability and likely cost of repair. That will also require an on-site visit as Jo will not be able to easily take the engine out and transport to a suitable engineering firm. Even to have the block repaired would entail its removal from the vehicle and a complete strip down. It will then need to be rebuilt. A big ask.

So, that's what I recommend Jo, you ask a reliable mechanic/engineer to come and take a good look and then decide what route to go down depending on their verdict.

 

[smyth1492]

To get the engine out either rent or buy an engine hoist or see if you can borrow one. I bought mine as I had space to store and the cost was not much more than renting twice. Jo will also need a long strop to go around the engine when lifting out. When the engine is out it is still very heavy and VERY careful care needs to be made on moving it about as it could easily do Jo an injury.

I used my engine hoist to lift my block into the back of my car and made sure that when it got to the destination there was someone strong enough to lift out.

 

[phoenixdave]

Never looked at it but whats the difference between a petrol and a diesel, aside from the head? Could you build a diesel short engine up with a petrol head. Will the Dizzy fit in place of the injection pump and is the cam the same? Just thinking out loud ad diesels are so much cheaper to buy and Jo already has a good petrol head and ancillaries.

The block is the same but the pistons and, I think, the con rods are different. David

 

[Landy Witch]

The block is the same but the pistons and, I think, the con rods are different. David

Just started to do a 5 main bearing engine rebuild ,(diesel to petrol) on my block, will have to change ,cam ,piston's and rods. will still have to use diesel flywheel and housing as not interchangeable on my block ,hopefully 3mb engines are more straight forward .

 

[robwlondon]

Something to consider before rushing to put a 200 or 300 tdi into an old petrol series Landy is that the OP lives in Brum whic is about to roll out a Clear Air Zone.

Birmingham Clean Air Zone: what you need to know | RAC Drive

The Birmingham Clean Air Zone (CAZ) will be introduced at the earliest by July 2020. Here's everything you need to know.

www.rac.co.uk

This currently only covers the city centre but inevitably this is the thin end of the wedge and in the future it is likely that older vehicles, particularly diesels will be completely banned from major cities or subject to huge daily tariffs.

Older petrol engined vehicles are likely to be cut a bit more slack and there may be exemptions for “classic” vehicles but future regulations are unlikely to be kind to an older vehicle where the owner has recently converted from petrol to and old diesel engine.

I may be being unduly pessimistic but my guess is that if the question was being asked again in 5 or 10 years time, rather than the merits of 200/300 tdis, V8s etc, the discussion will be as to which scrap electric car engine/battery combo works best in a Series or the merits of the various Br!tpart etc. electric conversion kits being offered as the only way to keep older Landies on the road.

In the meantime, as it is clear that Berty is intended to be a longterm “keeper”, IMHO, the OP’s interests are best served by replacing “like for like” and factoring in a possible future lpg conversion.

I hope things work out for the OP, she is definitely due a break, this thread really has been an emotional rollercoaster!

Brum with clean air It won't be the Brum we know and love.
But I do agree, I think we are in for a lot of changes.

 

[James609]

... that's what I recommend Jo, you ask a reliable mechanic/engineer to come and take a good look and then decide what route to go down depending on their verdict.

Pretty much any route involves engine out: you won't be able to fix it while it's still in Bertie and you can't put another one in either as there isn't room for two at the same time!

Once you've got a hoist, engine out is a morning's work (I did it on my own, although it's easier with two) especially now the head's off and it's a bit lighter . You'll also need to borrow a stand with wheels to put it on so it's not left outside on the floor.

Then you (with our help) can inspect it properly and you can crane it into the back of an estate car or van and get it to the engineering shop as others have suggested.

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

Pretty much any route involves engine out: you won't be able to fix it while it's still in Bertie and you can't put another one in either as there isn't room for two at the same time!

Once you've got a hoist, engine out is a morning's work (I did it on my own, although it's easier with two) especially now the head's off and it's a bit lighter . You'll also need to borrow a stand with wheels to put it on so it's not left outside on the floor.

Then you (with our help) can inspect it properly and you can crane it into the back of an estate car or van and get it to the engineering shop as others have suggested.

There are good and bad aspects of taking the engine out now.
I'm thinking along the lines of too much time passing between removal and re-installation in which things can get lost, rusty and/or damaged and also remembering how everything was removed and in what order.
I know I find it makes a job a lot more difficult if you have left it undone for some time.... finding everything after a couple of months can be a problem too.

 

[mikeau]

That's why I was suggesting having the machine shop that skimmed the head looking at it before scrapping the engine. If they can sort it for two or three hundred I'm confident Jo can put it back together from what we've seen so far and potentially saving hundreds on a new engine that might be just as bad.

I would just caution that if repairing that block, it would be wise to inspect/check absolutely everything possible before incurring expense on it. It only makes sense to have that one repaired if confident theres nothing else wrong with it...

 

[Big Sandy]

Either way, repair or replace, the engine is coming out. I doubt it's repairable in situ.

I agree with @Series 1 2 & 3 on time... The longer you take, the easier stuff goes missing, or rusts. You need to be thinking of dry storage for things you remove... Tesco/Asda home shopping delivery crates are good, nice and stackable. Just need somewhere dry....

I know a second hand engine can be an unknown... If you can see it running that's a bonus. If that were the case, a running engine, second hand, is better than no engine at all. You stand the same chance then as you do buying a second hand vehicle. Plus, a lot easier to install a complete engine than rebuild one and reinstall it.

A lot depends on how much you can afford, I guess.

 

[Guitar Mick]

Hi Jo, I've only just caught up with this thread, for some reason (along with other threads) it had dropped out of my alert notices. So very sorry to hear your news about your daughters baby, that is so sad. I hope 'Mum' is OK?

On the subject of engines, having read through the previous threads, this would be my take on the situation.

You could get an assessment of the original block, to see if a repair is viable, but In my view I would cut my losses here and start a search for a replacement block or complete engine. As Cliff has said there are a lot of unknown problems with the original engine and a block repair may not be the answer. So you could spend a lot of time and money putting the original back together only to find you still have a problem.
Changing to a non-standard engine is appealing, but will involve mechacnical skills I think I would struggle with. A straight swap, like for like would be a lot easier and should be less expensive.
That's where I would be going, and as a plus, keeping to an original engine will add to the vehicles value as a classic vehicle.

 

[freqmikey]

A lot depends on how much you can afford,

You're right but there's another element within that which can make a big difference, how much you want to afford, because if you want a thing enough you'll afford it.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say you'll need to budget for @ 1000 earthmoney.... IF the total cost comes in less than that then you're a happy bunny. That figure can include some paid assistance and some tools that you will need to buy (there's always a something) .... It's also a sensible upper limit to set yourself, though I'm no fan of having a budget, the more important thing is to get the job done !

Theoretically the engine could be repaired, if you throw enough money at it but whatever route is taken the engine has to come out from between the rails.
In my view of this puzzle that's the most difficult bit Jo has to deal with somehow. But with an engine crane, some hydraulic assistance from jacks etc and some long levers, something to slice through reluctant metal with and a positive mental attitude and it'll come out easily enough.

I'd suggest that while you're thinking about how to get the ££ together and deciding on the best engine choice you start to undress the front end,. Wings off, front panel and rad out of the way....the rest of the ancillieries off, starter motor etc etc etc....Label everything, use masking tape to make labels, clingfilm to wrap things in and keep assemblies together, take photo's as you take things apart and put nuts and bolts back into the holes they came from. You've done that stuff before........

The stuff about clean air zones and engine choice is right enough but another element to add into that equation is what is it that you're using the landy for ?....
If you're someone who has to commute into or drive around the centre of a city everyday the emmisions thing is a real issue, if you only go into those zones infrequently it's a different issue you deal with, and if you're using the vehicle only to get out of the city for outings etc it's a different issue again, and all of the 'issues' have solutions.
Once you know what the primary use for the vehicle is the engine choice becomes a lot easier.

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

If I were Jo, the last thing I'd want to do now is to do more than is necessary to get poor Berty back on the road.

 

[dirtyberty]

Where exactly is the crack?

Well i havnt looked on forum for a day or so , i have a lot of catching up too do .. the crack is between 3&4 piston , where it was in the head and where the gasket had blown , .. i,m just going too catch up with the messages and vote ,which i must say i am very impressed ... thanks again . i,ll be in touch very soon , Jo ,& Berty

 

[dirtyberty]

Oh my Landrover friends just stoked by all the help you have done for Berty and myself ..... how kind you all are , i,m in a pretty emotional state at the moment from one extreme too another ... i,m going too sit now and read everything i can too get into my head what a journey we have all gone through ...
Its like when your driving you dont see the scenery , yet when a passenger you take it all in .. so i,m going too be a passenger and relive what,s done ,been done and needs doing........ cheers all of you so so much . ill probably be a wee bit silent for a couple of hours .
I am so humbled really really mean that ...

cheers you landy doods

Berty & Jo .. xx

 

[dirtyberty]

Morning all , so today i have the dentist , i,m getting my new teeth lol ,
when i get back i am going too start dismantleing Berty . x

 

[Dave Cook]

Morning all , so today i have the dentist , i,m getting my new teeth lol ,
when i get back i am going too start dismantleing Berty . x

Take lot's of photos Jo so you can remember where stuff went, and label everything if you can. A bit of masking tape that you can write on does the trick.
I hope you have plenty of WD40 type stuff to hand as well.. Maybe make a note of anything that might need replacing, so that a parts list can be built up for the rebuild. Good luck

 

[Paul d]

Morning all , so today i have the dentist , i,m getting my new teeth lol ,
when i get back i am going too start dismantleing Berty . x

Have you decided on an engine or are you going to stick with what you have ..repair etc

 

[Series 1 2 & 3]

Personally I'd use this time to ascertain if the block is ok in all respects (other than the crack) before removing it.
The pistons need to be fitted and rudimentary measurements taken to see if any other damage is obvious.