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Underpowered Diesel and Injector Pump Queries

MBessent

In Fourth Gear
Hello

Series 2a First Drive After Clutch Swap

Far too long after the clutch pedal went solid in my Series 2a back in December, I finally got the interior reinstalled and was able to verify if the new clutch pressure plate would solve all my problems, or if I'd need to pull it all back out again and delve deeper into the gearbox. I'm very pleased to say that the new clutch parts seem to have done the trick, and she drove for the first time in over 4 months (if just forwards and backwards a few metres)

Whilst this is excellent news, I now return back to the problems with this engine. It's a 2.25 Diesel, supposedly from a London Taxi originally if the serial numbers are to be believed, but in many ways identical to the diesels found in the series 3 (I think)and swapped into my car at some point in the last 40 years.

As can be seen in the video, the engine is really struggling to reverse up what I would consider to be an incredibly gentle slope, I had to ride the clutch the whole way and almost stalled it multiple times. I'm aware that these diesels offer a somewhat lackluster performance, even compared to their contemporaries, but something doesn't feel right here, I should be able to reverse on essentially level ground.

I'm inclined to believe that the injector pump could be a culprit here, it has been dripping diesel during and after running the engine, although it's unclear exactly where on the pump it is coming from. The fuel system also seemingly needs to be bled every time I want to start the car, likely linked to the fuel leaking. I think someone said in a previous thread that if fuel's getting out, air is definitely getting in. I also have a lot of trouble starting it from cold, partly due to bleeding issue I assume, even after bleeding it's very stubborn, and won't go without a couple of hits of easy start. It will start from warm, as seen in the video, but I'm confident if I go out tomorrow morning and try to start it it'll just sit there cranking till the battery dies.

So the questions are:
- Am I correct that this engine is producing a very low power compared to what it should?
- What could be causing this serious lack?
- If it's the injector pump what should I do about that? I've heard you can replace some of the seals in situ, but after watching a full disassembly of one of these CAV pumps it looks a lot easier to do at a workbench, plus I don't know exactly which seal is leaking, so would it be better to take it to a repair shop and get it resealed professionally?
- if I wanted to pull the injector pump off, how would I go about that in a way that doesn't mess up the timing when it comes to reinstallation? Is it pretty idiot proof or is there a specific procedure?

I believe this engine was sat for a while, so it wouldn't surprise me if just a bit of driving around would bring some life back to it, however, at the moment I don't have the confidence that it'll get me back home to attempt that.

Thanks very much,
Mike
 
Well the first thing is well done for getting the box out and back in .. and you have a clutch .. and learnt a lot ..your fuel leak is the problem .. at this stage do not remove the pump ...air and water and any type of dirt.. well just about anything .. causes havoc on a diesel ... you can get away most most things on a petrol engine but .. diesel is a whole new ball game..... so clean all around the pump before you start it ..but bleed the pump first ..you might as well then fire it up and show us where the leak is coming from .. i find pieces of tissue or the like.. and look for the damp spot to appear ...
 
What does the engine serial number start with 14J where from taxis or 15J from Sherpa van ,12J landrover.
I had a 15J in my series 3 when 1st got it would do 70mph no problem.
If the leak is from the shafts on throttle cover plate that is quite a simple fix.
Has the fuel filter been changed recently and is your fuel lift pump working ok?
There is a small fuel filter on the pump as well if that choked will limit fuelling.
 

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Well the first thing is well done for getting the box out and back in .. and you have a clutch .. and learnt a lot ..your fuel leak is the problem .. at this stage do not remove the pump ...air and water and any type of dirt.. well just about anything .. causes havoc on a diesel ... you can get away most most things on a petrol engine but .. diesel is a whole new ball game..... so clean all around the pump before you start it ..but bleed the pump first ..you might as well then fire it up and show us where the leak is coming from .. i find pieces of tissue or the like.. and look for the damp spot to appear ...
The tissue idea may well narrow it down, I'll give that a go and see if it reveals anything. Initially I thought the leak was coming from the return line fitting at the base of the injector pump, however I've replaced that about 3 times now and each time didn't change anything, this seems to be the lowest point of the pump though, so drips from anywhere above it collect and fall off there.

What does the engine serial number start with 14J where from taxis or 15J from Sherpa van ,12J landrover.
I had a 15J in my series 3 when 1st got it would do 70mph no problem.
If the leak is from the shafts on throttle cover plate that is quite a simple fix.
Has the fuel filter been changed recently and is your fuel lift pump working ok?
There is a small fuel filter on the pump as well if that choked will limit fuelling.
Engine serial number is 36901004B, so not sure if I'm missing something with the Js?
1000016100.jpg

Fuel filter was changed when I first got the car and did a full service, so I'm fairly confident that's okay, the fuel lines were flushed through for a while too just into a bucket and that removed a lot of gunk from inside, lift pump seems to work well, at least I can bleed the fuel lines relatively easily using it, I don't think fuel supply is the problem. At least until it gets to the injector pump.

Its struggling to reverse, but drives OK going forward..? o_O
It didn't feel fantastic going forward either, sputtering a bit and getting bogged down, I don't know what the ratios are but I wouldn't be too surprised if reverse is a slightly higher ratio than first is

Are you sure your brakes arent binding when going backwards..?
I am not sure of that, is that a thing? They can be alright in one direction but bind In the other? I took a while to rebleed and adjust the brakes at the end of last year, so I thought they would be okay, although it has sat for a number of months at this point. It didn't feel too bad going forward, felt like it was rolling fine, harder to tell going backwards due to the slight incline. When my housemate gets back I'll attempt to just push it around, I know that when the brakes weren't binding I was able to roll it around by hand (just about) so that may indicate if brakes are an issue
 
The tissue idea may well narrow it down, I'll give that a go and see if it reveals anything. Initially I thought the leak was coming from the return line fitting at the base of the injector pump, however I've replaced that about 3 times now and each time didn't change anything, this seems to be the lowest point of the pump though, so drips from anywhere above it collect and fall off there.


Engine serial number is 36901004B, so not sure if I'm missing something with the Js?
View attachment 530480
Fuel filter was changed when I first got the car and did a full service, so I'm fairly confident that's okay, the fuel lines were flushed through for a while too just into a bucket and that removed a lot of gunk from inside, lift pump seems to work well, at least I can bleed the fuel lines relatively easily using it, I don't think fuel supply is the problem. At least until it gets to the injector pump.


It didn't feel fantastic going forward either, sputtering a bit and getting bogged down, I don't know what the ratios are but I wouldn't be too surprised if reverse is a slightly higher ratio than first is


I am not sure of that, is that a thing? They can be alright in one direction but bind In the other? I took a while to rebleed and adjust the brakes at the end of last year, so I thought they would be okay, although it has sat for a number of months at this point. It didn't feel too bad going forward, felt like it was rolling fine, harder to tell going backwards due to the slight incline. When my housemate gets back I'll attempt to just push it around, I know that when the brakes weren't binding I was able to roll it around by hand (just about) so that may indicate if brakes are an issue
The trailing shoes can bite into the drum in reverse and put the brakes on you may need to chamfer there top edges a bit.
 
Be as well to check the transmission brake as well.

There is a filter on the pump as well, a brass gauze one, on the intake at the top. (13 on the parts image @Serious Series posted) That could be choked.

If you are parked up, and you start the engine, how freely does it rev? If you can rev it then it's probably not a pump issue. It's pointing more to brakes binding to me. I can see it's a bit black, might be over fuelling a bit. You don't really know until you have it up to temperature.
 
Out of curiosity can you post a pic of the injection pump , your engine serial number does not match any listed.
Also a pic of the sides of the engine block looking for ribs on that.
 
I am not sure of that, is that a thing?
Can be...
They can be alright in one direction but bind In the other? I took a while to rebleed and adjust the brakes at the end of last year, so I thought they would be okay, although it has sat for a number of months at this point. It didn't feel too bad going forward, felt like it was rolling fine, harder to tell going backwards due to the slight incline. When my housemate gets back I'll attempt to just push it around, I know that when the brakes weren't binding I was able to roll it around by hand (just about) so that may indicate if brakes are an issue

ALWAYS suspect the last thing you touched/replaced/adjusted. If it was OK before you did the brakes the thats the first thing to look at.
 
What does the engine serial number start with 14J where from taxis or 15J from Sherpa van ,12J landrover.
I had a 15J in my series 3 when 1st got it would do 70mph no problem.
If the leak is from the shafts on throttle cover plate that is quite a simple fix.
Has the fuel filter been changed recently and is your fuel lift pump working ok?
There is a small fuel filter on the pump as well if that choked will limit fuelling.
If i remember this thread properly the pump is the old 2.25 style pump .. i think confusion could arise when the term "from an old taxi " is used .. so the question should be is the engine belt driven or chain drive ....??... go back to the thread ..smoking series 3.... from december 17th 2023.. where a picture or two of the pump is .. it is the old style 2.25 pump ...
 
If my memory serves the FX4R was a Land Rover 2 1\4 diesel so chain driven cam. Apparently they didn't like the long periods of idling involved in taxi work
FX4S was a Land Rover 2.5straight
The 2 1\4 is very sensitive to injection pump timing and they can smoke like a chimney if they haven't been run for a while.
This might be of interest to you.
 
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Hello

Series 2a First Drive After Clutch Swap

Far too long after the clutch pedal went solid in my Series 2a back in December, I finally got the interior reinstalled and was able to verify if the new clutch pressure plate would solve all my problems, or if I'd need to pull it all back out again and delve deeper into the gearbox. I'm very pleased to say that the new clutch parts seem to have done the trick, and she drove for the first time in over 4 months (if just forwards and backwards a few metres)

Whilst this is excellent news, I now return back to the problems with this engine. It's a 2.25 Diesel, supposedly from a London Taxi originally if the serial numbers are to be believed, but in many ways identical to the diesels found in the series 3 (I think)and swapped into my car at some point in the last 40 years.

As can be seen in the video, the engine is really struggling to reverse up what I would consider to be an incredibly gentle slope, I had to ride the clutch the whole way and almost stalled it multiple times. I'm aware that these diesels offer a somewhat lackluster performance, even compared to their contemporaries, but something doesn't feel right here, I should be able to reverse on essentially level ground.

I'm inclined to believe that the injector pump could be a culprit here, it has been dripping diesel during and after running the engine, although it's unclear exactly where on the pump it is coming from. The fuel system also seemingly needs to be bled every time I want to start the car, likely linked to the fuel leaking. I think someone said in a previous thread that if fuel's getting out, air is definitely getting in. I also have a lot of trouble starting it from cold, partly due to bleeding issue I assume, even after bleeding it's very stubborn, and won't go without a couple of hits of easy start. It will start from warm, as seen in the video, but I'm confident if I go out tomorrow morning and try to start it it'll just sit there cranking till the battery dies.

So the questions are:
- Am I correct that this engine is producing a very low power compared to what it should?
- What could be causing this serious lack?
- If it's the injector pump what should I do about that? I've heard you can replace some of the seals in situ, but after watching a full disassembly of one of these CAV pumps it looks a lot easier to do at a workbench, plus I don't know exactly which seal is leaking, so would it be better to take it to a repair shop and get it resealed professionally?
- if I wanted to pull the injector pump off, how would I go about that in a way that doesn't mess up the timing when it comes to reinstallation? Is it pretty idiot proof or is there a specific procedure?

I believe this engine was sat for a while, so it wouldn't surprise me if just a bit of driving around would bring some life back to it, however, at the moment I don't have the confidence that it'll get me back home to attempt that.

Thanks very much,
Mike
How did it drive before?
If your engine is from an FX4 London Cab, then its come from the FX4-R and fitted with a 2.25, 5 bearing diesel. A short lived engine due to issues with long idle periods causing low oil pressure and potential hydraulic timing chain tensioner problems.
Since you have a 2A, Rev is a higher at 2.54:1 Ratio. First being of 3.01:1..
So use low range in Reverse to save the clutch. Another real benefit of FWHs.
Since you have a late 2.25 engine, by the sounds of things. The CAV DPA fuel pump remains much the same throughout. A very good pump and easier to work on than most.
Fuel starvation will reduce power as will any air leaks.
As an example, I found fuel lines on a LR had been connected to the Lift pump using BSP fittings.. The fittings to the lift pump should've been UNF. This had been the cause of constant air leaks and lack of power for a very long time... And was only found after fitting CLEAR Fuel lines...
This way I could see Any air bubbles.
There are filters to check. Starting at the Pick up in the fuel tank, another gauze mesh usually in the fuel lift pump, that's before reaching the main cartridge fuel Filters and the last chance filter in the Fuel pumps regulating valve.
If its been sat for very long periods of time... Part of the fuel pump can sticks with Tarnish is the metering valve. This controls Pump Speed and is only opened by a light weight spring..
Any tarnish on this Free Floating fuel control valve will effect how much power and performance you get at the pedal.
Taking the pump off is very simple on the LR. Undo three studs, and lift the pump off. The timing isn't effected as master spline is fixed.
On the bench you can remove the governor cover, change throttle/Stop shaft seals and ensure the metering valve is free floating, removable after taking off the governor control bracket. Then there's the injection timing.... But start with the fuel lines and Filters First..., then the injector pump.
 
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If you are parked up, and you start the engine, how freely does it rev? If you can rev it then it's probably not a pump issue. It's pointing more to brakes binding to me. I can see it's a bit black, might be over fuelling a bit. You don't really know until you have it up to temperature.
Revs fairly freely, I don't have the experience to say exactly what's normal or not but you can touch the pedal and it'll rev straight away, not noticeably more delay than my Volvo. That video is actually the first time I've seen black smoke from that car, for a while it produced a lot of white smoke, big clouds of it as I tried to drive, but that seems to have cleared up now and been replaced with black.

With the car on chocks, I can rock the transmission brake drum back and forth by hand, this is just the play in the diff I assume, only a couple of degrees, but I'd expect to be feeling resistance If it's enough to be bogging the engine that bad.
ALWAYS suspect the last thing you touched/replaced/adjusted. If it was OK before you did the brakes the thats the first thing to look at.
This is good advice, but assumes you're coming from a place of everything working. I don't know the history of this car and it came to me not running and with no brakes, the few times it's driven previously it has been similarly underpowered, in forward and reverse, I've had to make use of low range a couple of times to manoeuvre it around more easily.

@Serious Series I'll take a couple of pics, but I believe @madmechanic 954 is correct

Fuel lines is not a bad shout, I was informed by the previous owner that they flushed and jet washed the tank when they dropped it to do some welding on the chassis, so that should be clear, when I first got the car I unhooked both ends of the main fuel line and cycled fuel through it with an external pump, this flushed out a bunch of crud and crap but I have no guarantee I got all of it. Are fuel lines fairly easy to do on one of these? I can access it all from underneath? Or does more of the body need to come off?
 
1000016133.jpg
1000016134.jpg

Here's a couple photos, I'm pretty sure it's a CAV DPA pump as mentioned.

Couple of other questions while I'm out looking:
1000016137.jpg

It looks as though the Rad has been extended backwards 3 inches or so with these silver metal panels on each side, they look to be hand cut and unoriginal with slightly wavy edges
1000016138.jpg

And the fuel line takes this convoluted route with sharp corners, entering the engine bay roughly in the middle of the engine between cylinders 2 and 3, before jumping back to the intake of the lift pump with a piece of flex pipe that is too short for the application.

Do either of these things, the radiator extension and seemingly wrong lift pump location speak to what engine this car may have came with originally?
 
This is good advice, but assumes you're coming from a place of everything working. I don't know the history of this car and it came to me not running and with no brakes, the few times it's driven previously it has been similarly underpowered, in forward and reverse, I've had to make use of low range a couple of times to manoeuvre it around more easily.

Possibly not brakes binding then, but why not just back off the brake adjusters and see if it makes any difference.?
Process of elimination.
Then you can concentrate on the engine.
 
View attachment 530500
Should also add, I drained my drip tray yesterday afternoon, so this puddle of diesel that has collected in there has happened in the last 24 hours, without running the engine.
Well if that is the amount of fuel leaking out overnight ..it is not a wonder that it needs to be bled in the mornings .. .. so run it up to get rid of any air in the system .. switch it off and then clean/dry every pipe and connector and leave over night .. then search for the damp patch on pipe work and connections .. yes it is a tedious job and bloody frustrating .. but with time you will find the source of the actual leak .. keep going ..you will find the fault ...
 
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