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Series 2a Diesel Won't Start

MBessent

MBessent

In Fourth Gear
Hello,
I've been scratching my head over this for a week or so now.
I recently got a 1969 Series 2a 109 Station Wagon, she needs plenty of work to get back to good condition but the chassis is good and most of the bodywork is in decent condition. It was a diesel from the factory, but at some stage in it's life it was given a newer diesel engine from a Series 3 (at least according to what I've read elsewhere online, serial number starts 366) but I just can't get it to start.

That's not strictly true, shortly after it arrived I was able to get it to start and run fairly well, after a good bit of cranking and some easy start fluid, it knocked a little at first but settled down straight away. This start up was done under the excitement of a new car, and after checking that there was some oil, some coolant and some fuel but not changing out any of the above.

Since then I have changed the oil, changed the coolant, changed the fuel filter, and on recommendation of the previous owner, cleaned out the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump on the engine.

I have just come in from attempting to re-bleed the whole system hoping that I had just missed some air somewhere but no luck.

The starter turns over well, at least with the help of a jumper from my daily car (battery in the Land Rover is a little small I think and tires quickly while cranking) and everything else seems good. Since I've had it running once myself, and the previous owner showed it running I'm confident there are no critical damages anywhere and feel I can rule out issues like no compression.

The glow plugs are a bit of a pain, one of the previous owners has rewired most of the car at some point and not done a great job of it, neither the key switch nor any of the other switches seem to activate the glow plugs (updated 12v ones in parallel I believe) but giving them power from the battery directly with a cable seems to heat them all up fairly effectively, and yet still no sign of life.

It does give little puffs of smoke out the exhaust while cranking, suggesting some amount of fuel is getting to the cylinders, but evidently not enough or it's not combusting properly in order to run the engine.

Does anyone have any experience with a stubborn diesel? Or any other advice or things to check on this?

My only thought is that the fuel pump may be on its way out, and while it pumps enough to flow some fuel through the lines and push the air out while bleeding it, it can't produce enough pressure to give a good injection, as such a replacement mechanical pump or the addition of a simple electric pump is my next idea, does that sound sensible?

This is my first Land Rover so I'm fairly new to the layout and operations of these things, so I may well be missing something obvious, but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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One day I hope my Land Rover loses enough paint to look that good. I have a patina flutter going on right now.

The problem seems to be that, despite best efforts, there is still some air in the fuel system. All things being equal all you've changed to stop the engine is the fuel filter and cleaned out the line to the tank. That's a lot of air inside what wants to be a closed loop of fuel.

Are you getting fuel out the bleed screw on the housing? Loosening each injector line will soon let you know which one(s) aren't getting fuel when you crank it.
 
Fah. Hit reply button by accident.

To continue.... the simplest way to purge the air, which is what is likely to be the problem, is to undo the pipe unions on injector 1 and 3, turn the engine over a few times, then give it some glow plugs. It will fire on two cylinders eventually, then nip the other two unions up. It will settle down. It's going to be messy, and it will stink if derv for days ...

Leave it running for a few minutes, then shut down and see if it starts again.

Next time you change the filter, get it hot first, makes it much easier.

Battery... Bigger is better. Iirc 95ah is recommended, but 110ah is better. Battery will need to be good to fire it up from cold.
 
Thanks all for the advice! I'll have another crack at bleeding it out in the next day or so when I have some time to work on it.

Really looking forward to getting it running, even just to get it away from the street where the trailer dropped it off, only so long I can work on it before it gets dark in these increasingly shorter days.

I hadn't realized that bleeding it out was such an affair, but It sounds as though that's the nature of the beast and you can get a bit of a knack for it with practice. Still, early days in my adventures with this car, I'm sure there is plenty more frustration and excitement on the horizon!

I'll have a look for a larger battery, is there a recommended CCA for them? I saw 650A floating around at some point which would put what's currently in there a little under sized?
 
Hi, I trust you have now fully bled your fuel system and you have clear fuel, free of air coming out of the fuel filter housing and the Two Bleed nipples on the injection pump. If the engine is still not firing but smoking, then it sounds like there is insufficient fuel being injected..
Your 2.25 diesel will have a CAV DPA rotary pump.
What can happen, if left idle a long time, is the Metering Valve inside the injection pump Sticks shut. This will then, only allow a minimal amount of fuel, to be injected, hence the smoke, but will not start the engine. If this is the case, Bump starting is unlikely to work.
To fix this, On the injection pump itself you could try wiggling the stop lever and the accelerator linkage together, in the hope of getting things to free off, but unlikely to as only a light spring connects to the metering valve. But worth a try. Other wise you need to open the governor housing on the pump.
With air still being in the system likely, I personally would ensure the fuel system was fully bled, then with two people, one to press the start button/ hold the throttle wide open, the other to spray a Tiny amount of 'Bradex Easy Start' starting spray into the inlet manifold.. If there is a problem, it will fire on the easy start and pull the fuel through, or if not you'll know very quickly No fuel is getting into the engine.
You'll then need to fully check the fuel system again. Fuel, lift pump, pick ups, etc..
 
Thanks for the help, I was able to get the engine running after re-bleeding it again, and using some of the techniques mentioned on here.

Glow plugs are still an issue, they have to be manually wired to battery positive as theres no sign of any activation when any of the switches in the dash are used. The whole thing needs rewired I think, but that's a job for another day.

It now starts from the key from warm, and can get there with a bit of manual glow plug implementation from cold. Sounds to be running alright and fairly strong.

Spent today ripping out the non-original front seats that didn't fit in the car very well that a previous owner left in there, and waiting on a new brake master cylinder as it seems to be completely seized. Hoping to get it back on the road fairly soon.
 
Did you ascertain which glow plugs you have?

From the pic of your engine bay, they look like the new style, but hard to say for sure, post up a better pic.

If new style, then don't run them through the resistor. They won't work if you do.
 
I presume you glow plug warming light is working. Then I would check type of glow plug. Cyril has original pig tail glow plugs wired through the ballast resistor. If yours up graded, then a Sandy say they will not work if wired through ballast resistor. With winter coming sorting glow plugs would be my next step.
 
The glow plug warming light is not working, Ive flicked every switch and pressed every button on the dashboard and nothing has iluminated either the light or the plugs themselves.

Ive seen cars where glow plugs are tied to the ignition switch, and ones where its a separate switch, however neither seem to work on this car. The car has been rewired and is a bit of a mess electrically, so is likely going to need a manual going over to find where the wires from the glow plugs actually go. Ive tried to have a look but the steering wheel is really stuck on and I've not been able get it off, and that rather limits access to the wiring behind the dashboard as I can only pull the gauge cluster out about an inch.

I believe they are upgraded 12v plugs, they seem to be tied to the ballast resistor however there are 4 or 5 other wires tied to that too, none of which look original and all of which disappear through the bulkhead and into the inaccessible area behind the steering wheel.

So to get any further I'm going to need to find a way to get the steering wheel off.
 
A slightly more in depth look at the balance resistor seems to suggest it has been bypassed, the two thicker wires go to the same post. Red thick, red thin, and white disappear into a tightly wound loom made of electrical tape and head through the bulkhead to behind the gauge cluster, and thick brown runs to the the 4 glow plugs in parallel.

I say 4, but actually on inspection the rearmost glow plug isn't connected, nonetheless thick brown is the power distribution to the glow plugs in parallel.
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The steering will need a mighty thumb. Undo the retaining bolt, but you must leave the nut thread at least the depth of the nut, otherwise you break your nose when it gives way. Penetrative oil "progas" then thumb the top edge before giving it a good shake.
 
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